Arney - that sounds like a better strategy. If the helo's could pick a relatively empty landing area - then land quickly and unload the supplies before the helicopter gets mobbed.

It would still be nice of some crew member from the helo's would post some actual pix from Haiti. If anyone sees these photo's on the Internet ... please post alink here.

other Pete

It's a shame that all the self proclaimed experts aren't in Haiti right now, from the General (Ret) who sits, well fed, hydrated and comfortable in an air-conditioned television studio telling doctors on the scene to "man up" to those who pontificate on web forums.

JohnE

We should probably all be down there - all of us on this fourm.
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Here's another report from Reuters about the looting in Haiti. This problem may settle down a bit, once 2200 US Marines are deployed into the country ...
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"PORT-AU-PRINCE (Reuters) – U.S. troops protected aid handouts and the United Nations sought extra peacekeepers to bolster security in earthquake-shattered Haiti on Monday as marauding looters emptied wrecked shops and tens of thousands of survivors waited desperately for food and medical care.

Hundreds of scavengers and looters swarmed over wrecked stores in downtown Port-au-Prince, seizing goods and fighting among themselves, but some signs of normality returned as street vendors emerged with fruit and vegetables for sale.

"We do not have the capacity to fix this situation. Haiti needs help ... the Americans are welcome here. But where are they? We need them here on the street with us," said policeman Dorsainvil Robenson, deployed to chase looters in the capital."

other Pete

Regarding the article, this is one instance I really wish I hadn't been right. Human nature is just too predictable. And wasn't it Sue that stated early on that in this instance what we see as looting the victims are seeing as survival. If DW and DS are dieing of thirst and/or starving you'd better believe I would do the same.

General Honore walked the walk during Katrina, which gives him room to talk the talk now.

Based on his actions then, I have no doubt that he would not have permitted leaving patients unattended without an actual threat to go without reprimand. And I would _not_ want to be the security squad chief who decided to withdraw for the night rather than stay at the site and support the medical personnel.

The bottom line is that Sanjay Gupta stayed and the patients lived. The Belgian doctors ran and abandoned their patients, not in response to an actual threat.

Had the Belgians had even false reports of a mob or other threat that mitigate their behavior, but apparently that's not the case.

"Do Not Abandon A Patient In Distress" is right up there with The 10 Commandments for most doctors I've known. Sanjay Gupta did not, whatever his motives, and the Belgians did, apparently before having reason to do so. The Belgians are more likely to have to explain themselves back home than Sanjay Gupta.

He, the general, is not there, he doesn't know the facts behind anyone's decision to do anything in Haiti. He came late to the party after Katrina, he attempted to enforce martial law there when it hadn't been declared. He now makes a living second guessing what others do, he'd fit right in around here. He had no authority to do some of the things he tried to do in New Orleans, he has no authority, moral or otherwise to make unfounded comments on volunteers who are actually on the ground in Haiti, not sitting comfortably in a television studio. If he feels that others need to "man up" why isn't he doing the same?

Nobody on this forum knows any of the details behind Dr. Gupta's actions or the actions of any other medical personnel in Haiti other than what's being reported. Like so many other times of disaster, both personal and large, everyone is jumping to conclusions based on what they've heard and seen on television. I'll wait and see what the real facts before jumping to any conclusions about the courage of Dr. Gupta or the lack of it by the doctors from Belgium. Obviously everyone else can do as they please.

This is what Sanjay was reporting as the Belgians were preparing to pull out for the night:


Sanjay and this field hospital were in a particularly impoverished part of the city (I forget the name of the place) so I'm not surprised that there was already some trouble in that area.

I was even reading on an Israeli news site that the Israelis also suspended operations at night early on (it's not clear if the article was talking about the field hospital or their SAR teams but I thought it was referring to their medical operations) so the Belgians are not the only ones being cautious.

"He, the general came late to the party after Katrina, he attempted to enforce martial law there when it hadn't been declared."

I'm wondering where you got your information. I understood that he and his guys were standing by, waiting for Katrina to make up her mind which way she was turning. And he isn't allowed to move until the military was invited by the governor of the state involved.

As to martial law, he said he didn't see anything that required martial law to be envoked. The people at the Superdome were quiet and patient. The people at the convention center were calm, mainly going after water, food and usable stuff like mattresses to set on the ground.

He WAS the one who objected to the soldiers (NG, I think) who were delivering food going around with their rifles at the ready like they were in downtown Baghdad. Right in front of the news cameras, Honore' was yelling at them: "Get those rifles down -- you're delivering food! GET THOSE G** D*** RIFLES DOWN!" For which he got into trouble, because the twit who was told/had agreed to get the word to the soldiers NOT to wave their guns around, didn't do so.

Sue

Pretty harsh, John, especially to those of us on the forum who are following the story, talking our way through the info being presented by the media, and simply trying to make some sense out of the madness. Speaking of madness, I had CNN on last night and saw a clip about looters taking candles from a store, and the tail end of another where a boy had been hurt badly in the head, bleeding and all and noone but the reporter would help. Didn't catch why or how the boy was hurt though. Also a clarification of the roadblocks mentioned earlier in the thread. It appears the roadblocks are being set up by storeowners to prevent looters from ransacking their stores before the store owners can get their stuff out.
I am trying to keep in mind, and all of us should, that the media people are finding the stories that present the best and worst of mankind, the most sensationalized things they can find to get ratings, as they do in any situation. Many are the stories in the media about our area of Kentucky that depict us as uneducated toothless drug addicts without a pot to p--- in. They never show you the people with college educations (myself included) who live in neighborhoods of modern homes (running water and flushing toilets and everything, sorry sue). That's not what sells advertising, and not what draws Americans to the television to see people worse off than they are so they can feel better about themselves.
Sorry, off my soap box now. Point is anything in the media has to be taken with a grain (or shaker) of salt. Anything we see is only a tiny fraction of a much larger whole. Certainly with regards to Haiti we are only seeing a small part of the whole story that is unfolding.