I do a lot of solo mountaineering. So I just got a pair of alpine touring skis and went to Mt. Rainier. Was a whiteout, so now I'll need a GPS so I don't walk off a cliff. Ranger scolded me for not having an avalanche beacon. I asked her "how would you know to look for me", she just gave me a blank look. So does anyone know if there's a combination avalanche beacon and PLB? Does a PLB work as an avalanche beacon? Different frequencies I know. The options are, as I see it:

1. Cell phone, downside is there's no reception in the backcountry
2. PLB, think I'll get one of these
3. GPS, guess I'll get one of these finally, are there any combo units with emergency beacons?
4. Avy beacon, will any of the above work instead?
5. Short-wave transciever to call the ranger, downside is I'll need a HAM license.

As far as I can tell I'll need the first 4 of the above gadgets to: keep in contact with family, signal for help, find my way through the storm, and be found under snow. I see where SPOT will be able to relay user-inputted messages soon, but I'll still need a cellphone to order pizza.

Solo, in avalanche terrain?

Here you go
http://www.intelliquote.com/default.asp?...CFRMqagodmR_KaA

A avalanche beacon is always ‘on’. A PLB only when activated. Pushing the button on a PLB can be an issue when buried under 10 feet of snow…

The two devices are for different uses. Not much point having a PLB, even if its activated if you are buried in a avalanche. Your most likely dead by the time rescue shows up. A PLB sends a message to search and rescue by satellite. It takes time for the too arrive. A avalanche beacon is only useful when you travel with others, also equipped with beacons, shovels and probes. A beacon is short range device and only useful if the rescuer is close by. Time is essential for avalanche victims.

A PLB is nice for other emergency’s in the mountains, when you can wait for rescue.

Best advice is not to travel alone, wear avalanche beacons, snow shovel, probe and a PLB.

Oh and what do you mean with mountaineering exactly?

To add to what Tjin said.
Avalanche beacons are also avalanche beacon receivers.
If you dissapear under a cloud of the white stuff, your friends switch their beacons to search mode and look for you. this of course requires training (and a certain level of inteligence) - having just the one beacon is pretty pointless.
Although some resort and mountain resuce groups have avalanche beacons that can be carried by helicoter to search a large avalanche area quickly - this is really only useful if one hits a ski run where they know there are people.

There are also cheap passive avalanche beacons (RECO tags) which can be built into clothes and ski gear. These are very short range, the rescuer has to be prety much standing over the top of you. They are standard for all skiers and ski patrols in european resorts but seem rare in the US.

No technology in the world can prevent you from walking off a cliff in a whiteout if the terrain is rough. Of course, a GPS can assist your efforts to stay in areas where cliffs are fewer.

But as an experienced solo hiker I bet you knew that already, didn't you? Nevermind, I just took advantage to blow off some steam on a subject dear to my heart: Overconfidence in technology. Trusting a GPS is great as long as you don't have overconfidence in its accuracy. Being just 3 foot off trail is deadly many places...


You said it yourself to the ranger: "How would you know to look for me?" Most people that live through an avalanche are saved by their buddies. This is where avalanche beacons can and do make a difference for those dedicated enough to use one. For your purposes, it is just a body locator service: All by yourself in an avalanche, you'll be dead and long gone before anyone reports you missing. But locating your body is no small thing - it saves hundreds of man-hours of searching and improves the grieving process for your relatives and friends.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure no PLB in the world will ever work buried in an avalanche - snow and ice are not good mediums for radio transmission.

I say avalanche is all about knowledge and avoidance, in particular for the solo hiker. But ah, the joys of skiing the very slopes that are most prone to avalanches...



There are PLB's with GPS in them, read the threads about SPOT on this forum. But those are (to my knowledge) not suitable nor intended as general purpose GPS. I suggest you keep GPS and PLB separate, that way your every day routine (GPS navigation) does not empty the batteries of your emergency life line (the PLB).



To my knowledge: No.

But there are miracle stories about people being saved with reflections from cell phones when searched for with Recco-equipment. Doesn't sound very reliable in my book.

Thanks folks! All good comments.

Mt. Rainier, Mt. Hood, St. Helens, these places are always full of tourists and rangers. When I "solo" hike and climb on them in the summer there's always been someone else in sight. Got on those skis a few days ago and it was a different story. But with all those rangers and emergency response gear around I'm thinking a PLB signal might get to them in minutes after activated and they can be to a lost soul in a couple of hours, especially as I always notify them of my routes. Maybe even in time to dig someone out of an avalanche (providing I can activate the PLB while still conscious).... As someone mentioned, it's also polite to wear a beacon to enable a speedy body recovery.

Consider that even if you are solo, with a beacon a bystander(s) may see you get caught in an avalanche and try to rescue you. You might have the chance to help someone else also.

From what I've read, the snow in an avalanche sets like cement within a few seconds of stopping. There's no way to activate a PLB in that situation.

Once buried in snow -- even if activated -- the PLB probably won't be able to receive a GPS signal so no precise lat-long, and if the PLB antenna isn't oriented right it probably won't connect to SARSAT. They just weren't designed to work under snow.

I don't know if they really work or not but I remember I once read about so called avalanche airbags. Here are some examples from my bookmarks: http://www.abssystem.com/ , http://www.skiingthebackcountry.com/Snow_Pulse_Avalanche_Airbag.php (no affiliation etc.).
It might give you one more layer of protection against an avalanche.

First thing to do is go take an avalanche safety course then you will have a better understanding of the issues involved.

It is nice to think that everyone will jump to your rescue when you get buried in an avalanche while traveling solo but you will have less than 30 minutes of air and you will not be able to move a finger to press a button on your PLB.

Get some avalanche avoidance knowledge before you head out so that you can avoid putting yourself and the rescuers in danger.

I have heard of a product called avalung which enables one to have more breathing time if buried in snow. I have not personally used this product.

I have seen a POV video on the net where a skier is buried (and dug out) and is breathing under the snow with his avalung.
Here is the link to the video http://vimeo.com/6581009 and here is the link to the avalung product at REI http://www.rei.com/product/705146?cm_mmc...CFQ975Qod3i4FTA

Another piece of equipment which may be of interest is an Avalanche airbag system. There is some physics rule that allows larger objects to "flow" on the top of the moving snow. It is essentially a back pack with air bags that inflate when activated to make you a "larger object" and thus stay on top (or at least closer to the top) of the moving snow.

I know very little about avalanche search/rescue/survival and I am sure there are others around here who can speak more intelligently on the subject matter then myself.

And I agree with PackRat about taking an avalanche safety course. Which is something I would like to do one day.

The avalung does has a flaw, how do you stick the tube in your mouth on time and how do you keep it there during tha avalanche...?

It won't connect to SARSAT. Period. Orientation doesn't matter - bury a PLB under compact snow and I will be utterly, completely and absolutely stunned if it can transmit to the satellite.



Exactly. The only radio equipment designed to work under snow are the avalanche beacons and RECCO equipment. Those are not exactly long range transmission....

The ugly truth: If no one sees you being buried in an avalanche you're dead. Period. If someone sees you and can find you within 30 minutes you may or may not survive - depends purely on luck and chance (are you one of those blunt trauma victims, have you suffocated from snow in your mouth and nostrils, can someone dig you out quickly?). Spend more time buried and your luck runs out pretty quick. There is no go-lucky-be-happy equipment that can save you. All those gadgets and trinkets can do is to improve your chances a little bit under a limited set of circumstances.

An avalanche course is really an excellent idea! It is all about risk assessment and avoidance.

I believe the avalung allowed the skier in the video to breathe under the snow even though it was partially near his mouth. I would imagine your point is a good case for avalacnhe training which can help teach one to identify the risks and anticipate accordingly.

Why is there this reliance on technology? Out of the five piece of technology the original posters listed in the circumstances described the avalanche beacon would be the most important.

The reason for this is; even as a soloist, if caught in an avalanche there is a good chance that others have been caught in or have at least seen it and some sort of search would be put in place to look for casualties just in case someone was caught in it. In the case of an avalanche there is a 90% chance of survival 15 minutes after the event but only a 10% chance after 90 minutes.

Carrying a beacon will just give you that little bit of a chance of being discovered quicker. Not many of us travel to remote enough places to be caught in an avalanche without someone noticing it. Secondly, we need to remember our friends and family. That beacon may not save your life but it may speed up the recover of your body. I would prefer my family having to deal with the tragic consequences of the aftermath instead of having to worry about the unknown and uncertainty until your body has been discovered after the thaw. I personally am happier for my family to see my battered and broken body after a tragic demise than for them seeing my stinking decomposing and possibly half scavenged body months later.

One would hope that as a ‘mountaineer’ you would have the skills and experience to enter an area safely with the correct knowledge to asses the avalanche risk, recognise areas prone to avalanche and to avoid them if possible.

Your navigation skills with a map and compass should be at least on par with the accuracy of a GPS, if not more accurate. The information available on a map really ties you into the landscape, even the best GPS’s don’t.

Cell phones are great when you have a reception but pretty much useless in an avalanche. Even if you find yourself floating on top of the debris once the avalanche has stopped and your pack and clothes have not been shredded in the process and you are not too badly injured you may find the avalanche has pushed you to far into a valley or depression that you cant get a reception. Worth carrying and checking for a reception though, in any incident.

PLB are great and worth carrying in more remote locations but in many high activity areas someone will be on location and there is a very good chance that your rescue will be well and truly in progress by the time the EPIRB system has taken full effect. It is still worth carrying one as you never quite know if it might be your only chance of getting your distress out. But, in most land based recreational sports in relatively high visited areas they are not essential.

One would also hope that all the normal planning and information is left with a responsible person before the start of an activity or trip is started.

I've read the survival rate of not getting buried in the first place is around 98% so I'm with you on avoiding areas of risk.

Yeah, I was wondering if the 457 kHz signal of the avy beacon was specifically chosen because snow was most transparent to that frequency as opposed to the 406 MHz PLB.

Hey, this website is called "equipped to survive", we're talking gear here. But, granted, nothing substitutes for common sense, training, caution, experience, preparation, situational awareness, and all of that other essential stuff. I've always travelled with a topo, a compass, and a backup compass.

So the consensus seems to be that each of the five pieces of tech I first asked about have a unique, nonredundant application that adds an increment of safety to my backcountry skiing expeditions. I was afraid of that, my pack's already too heavy.

This is also interesting: http://www.skiingthebackcountry.com/beacon_malfuction.php, these folks have been testing cellphone and GPS interference with the avy beacon signal, seems to be substantial in some cases. Need to keep other powered-up electronics away from your beacon.

No piece of gear trumps common sense and experience.