>>One of the bag sizes we use is approx 2.25” x 8”.<<<br><br>I’m trying to envision this.. tropical eels? :-) Maybe the next size up…<br><br>However, if the stored size of the bag were pretty much the same per volume capacity (pretty much impossible, I guess, given surface-to-volume ratio) multiple smaller containers would be preferable- get all your eggs out of one basket, so to speak.<br><br>>>They are gas permiable, which helps the fish by allowing the CO2 to escape and the oxygen to enter the water…. Buit what caught my attention was how elastic they were <<<br><br>Sounds like expanded PTFE, with a smaller pore size than Gore-Tex, thus avoiding all that licensing overhead.. but I’d expect that to be opaque. Were these transparent?<br><br>>>Unfortunately, they are not sold through retail. The few folks I know that use them ship enough to justify buying case lots from industry contacts they know.<<<br><br>BUT, at the probable cost in bulk, some enterprising outfitter might be able to mark these up 100 percent, maybe 200 percent, and they’d still be cheap for those just wanting a few- probably cheaper than (good) condoms…<br><br><br><br>

I'm on the run here, as usual, but to help answer this question let me share some personal experience.<br><br>1. Still water and condoms are difficult to deal with in my experience. After unrolling, you can pull them through the water, holding the opening open, to fill; works moderately well. Best solution I've found is to improvise some manner of container using the aluminum foil in your mini kit or leaves, bark, what have you, and then pour into the condom.<br><br>2. Condoms work best with running water. If there's no kitchen tap at hand you need to look for nature's version. Thus, a stream is the easist to use, best if you build a small dam/water fall, so to speak, to fill it under. More pressure, more water in the condom. <br><br>3. Haven't yet figured a good way to get water directly from a small seep if you have to suck it up to get any water.<br><br>4. I once made a dam to create a small pool from a larger seep. Siphon didn't work great, but it did work. Biggest problem was the minimal quantities, a real PITA. I wouldn't try it for real unless there were no other viable options. Best bet is to just stick with the seep unless you have very good alternates and reason to move.<br><br>5. Storage is a problem. Coat pocket works well, as does a cargo pant pocket if you're not going far. Spare sock, glove, or an improvised container from aluminum foil can be made. The condoms I've tried have proved very resilient, but, it's just a condom and serves only as a last resort. That's the most critical point. It's a last resort, not your first choice.<br><br>The condom's big advantage is that it is a very small package and stores well for many years. So far I haven't found anything better for a mini-kit. Once you move to larger kits, lots of other better choices. But, larger kits have drawbacks.<br><br>And, you can always carry some better container separately in a pocket. Lots of choices from zipper lock bags on up. Some better than others. If I am going out on a hike or flying, I always carry water in a container(s) on my person. I find the small plastic flasks with curved backs (mil-spec or liquor store) work great in a flight suit or cargo pants. See http://www.equipped.org/pp/pic566.htm With these, I don't really need the condoms for water, but stuff happens. They also have other potential uses...for survival that is. They are elastic, after all. <br><br>Hope this helps,<br><br>Doug Ritter<br>Editor<br>Equipped To Survive

Point well taken, Chris.<br><br>I guess my question was answered. How would the survival tins help with obtaining potable water? They don't- at least to any real degree. After reading these discussions, I don't consider survival tins "enough," but I do consider them better than nothing.<br><br>While we're all on the subject of gathering water, I'll share a little trick that allows you to heat canteens that have the plastic tops. Forgive me if everyone knows about this already, but I think it's pretty cool.<br><br>You will need two key rings and one metal clip (Clip=The ones found on belt loops or money wallets that keys clip to.)<br><br>Get an aluminum canteen. Make sure it is not the kind with the plastic screw threats already molded to the top. You want the kind with the plastic cap that is connected to the canteen with a chain.<br><br>Carefully bend the chain link open where it connects to the canteen body.<br><br>Attach one key ring to the canteen body where the chain connected. There should already be a smaller ring to fit your key-sized ring onto. If the chain attaches directly to the canteen, then use a #5 split ring. (Get them at fishing gear places; these are the ones that fit onto the Leatherman Tool Lanyard rings.)<br><br>Attach the metal clip to the ring you just put on the canteen body.<br><br>Finally, attach the key ring to the chain connected to the plastic top.<br><br>After making sure everything is snug and there are no gaps, you now have a removable top on the canteen. You can now heat your canteen without worrying about any plastic melting. With the key ring, you can slide a wire through and hang it over a fire, or place it directly on coals and get it out by slipping a stick in.<br><br>If you always keep a canteen cup mated to the canteen, you have a reasonable survival mess kit. I pair this up with a fanny pack of necessary survival items that always goes with me whenever I leave a campsite.<br><br><br>Peace and God Bless America<br><br>Chris

Bill, Ill be helping to move cattle in a few weeks, way up in the mountains above Santa Barbara Calif. I hope to get the freshwater fishing review done at that time. If you want me to field test them I will. Another expediant water container is a good felt hat, and there are even plastic covers. My horse thinks of my hat as her canteen now. <br><br>

Doug,<br><br> Have not seen mil-spec or (liquor store?) flasks of this type. Where do you find them. Coghlan flasks are everywhere. Are they the same? <br><br>

>>Still water and condoms are difficult to deal with in my experience. After unrolling, you can pull them through the water, holding the opening open, to fill; works moderately well.<<<br><br>Sounds like a larger pool than we typically have to deal with in this area. This is one technique that might work with the condom that wouldn’t work at all with a balloon.<br><br>>>Best solution I've found is to improvise some manner of container using the aluminum foil in your mini kit or leaves, bark, what have you, and then pour into the condom.<<<br><br>I wouldn’t have thought that this would work at all, beyond the unexpanded volume of the condom, without tap pressure or at least a fall of a few feet.<br><br>>>I once made a dam to create a small pool from a larger seep. Siphon didn't work great, but it did work. Biggest problem was the minimal quantities, a real PITA. I wouldn't try it for real unless there were no other viable options. Best bet is to just stick with the seep unless you have very good alternates and reason to move.<<<br><br>My experience using the tubing is mostly in MD, VA, PA and CT, where most streams nearly dry up in summer, and turn into little rivulets over rocks- if you’re lucky. I try to find or make a spot where it’s flowing quickly, with just enough depth/force to cover the end of the tubing, which I place a small rock on top of to anchor. In one spot I used to walk to often, we found that it took almost 20 minutes to get a quart of water (that was with a 6 foot tube on a shallow slope- would have been faster with longer tube or more slope)- but it took no attention, so you could let it flow while making camp, cooking, even overnight- just swap bottles every so often once it’s going. An hour and a half per gallon is not bad at all if you don’t have to work at it. Without the tubing, it would have taken forever- no way to submerge a container, even a shallow cup, without building a pretty good size dam. I’ve also used it to tap ground water seeping out of the walls of a quarry. I can’t see how you could use it to expand a condom at all, though.<br><br><br>

A few pop up on ebay auction under 'survival' @$ 6.50 occasionally. They are a translucent plastic shaped much like a tulip wine glass with a narrow opening. <br><br>

Chris,<br><br>I think Hunter is referring to Doug's "small plastic flasks with curved backs (mil-spec or liquor store)". I get the feeling you're referring to the military pilot's survival water bag thingies.<br><br><br>

Mil-spec is generally called USAF Pilot's Flask. see: http://www.equipped.org/pp/pic729.htm<br><br>Yes, the Coghlan flask is the same, one size only. You can find smaller and larger sizes at many liqour outlets, at least around here. There is also a Lexan version of this sort of flask, but it's quite a bit bulkier.<br><br>Doug Ritter<br>Editor<br>Equipped To Survive

The bottles you refer to are a component of the Navy survival kit/water wing for crews not flying with ejection seats. I don't have an item number readily available.<br>I cannot envision a scenario where a condom would be suitable or necessary for water collection or storage.<br>Call me a skeptic if you will. I was dismayed with the issue army survival vests that are IMHO woefully inadequate. I juiced mine up pretty well when I was on flight status. I couldn't imagine using the issue kit in an emergency any more than I can get an appreciation for the usefullness of the minimal supplies that fit in an altoids (or equivalent) tin. <br>Sorry!<br><br>Jeffery S. Anderson, M.D.<br><br>