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#192050 - 12/28/09 11:59 PM Re: Bad GPS Directions Strand Couple for 3 Days [Re: KenK]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
The map is not the terrain.

GPS isn't even a map.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#192051 - 12/29/09 12:06 AM Re: Bad GPS Directions Strand Couple for 3 Days [Re: Russ]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
I'm planning my trips to rural regions way ahead of time, using at least 4 sources of road maps and aerial imagery (usually 6-7) for a 5 mile wide corridor along my assumed path, and still don't hesitate to ask locals for brief directions when possible.

The military past, you know... smile

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#192053 - 12/29/09 12:32 AM Re: Bad GPS Directions Strand Couple for 3 Days [Re: Alex]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Sounds like me pre-flighting my route on PC mapping software and then viewing it in google-earth to see the terrain.

I've taken routing advice from locals too.

Originally Posted By: Susan
. . ."Forest + Service + Road"... what does that imply?. . .
Sue
Folks, when you see snow on the road, ask yourself, "Is this road ever plowed?" If the answer to that is possibly "No", think seriously about finding a place to turn-around.

_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#192061 - 12/29/09 03:09 AM Re: Bad GPS Directions Strand Couple for 3 Days [Re: ]
UpstateTom Offline
Member

Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 165
Loc: Rens. County, NY
Everyone has pointed out, correctly IMO, that the basic problem was over reliance on technology.

I don't think the problem is with the use of GPS, though, I think it's a lack of familiarity with driving in the snow. On the road, especially in flat country, 2" of snow looks a lot like 6", which looks a lot like 2'. Someone who has some degree of familiarity knows when they're in a situation they shouldn't be. I don't know if someone who has never driven in snow would realize the problem until it was too late?



Edited by UpstateTom (12/29/09 04:07 AM)
Edit Reason: fixed bad phrasing

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#192065 - 12/29/09 03:41 AM Re: Bad GPS Directions Strand Couple for 3 Days [Re: UpstateTom]
Todd W Offline
Product Tester
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 1928
Loc: Mountains of CA
The problem also could have been that 1.5' of snow may not have been much but they went down a hill and couldn't turn around and go back, or they got stuck in a valley and couldn't make it up. (I didn't read the article.)

In some places like here forest service roads have road signs and look like normal roads, but also are labeled on smaller signs the forest service digits.

I can see how this could happen very easily... GPS or not, if you are not familiar with an area and go down a road that is nearly impossible to get back out of you cuold be in trouble. My road is one of these roads, and with <1' of snow for almost all cars it would be impossible to get up some of the STEEP south facing switch backs, also with my pickup it's impossible to turn around due to how narrow the road gets when it snows, I have to find a driveway that's been cleared and then work it to turn around.

I think it's easy to judge the mistake and blame the GPS but I can very easily see how this could happen to even those w/out a GPS who make a wrong turn following bad directions and end up stranded.

W/out being there it's hard to say for sure everything behind it.
_________________________
Self Sufficient Home - Our journey to self sufficiency.

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#192069 - 12/29/09 04:01 AM Re: Bad GPS Directions Strand Couple for 3 Days [Re: Todd W]
UpstateTom Offline
Member

Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 165
Loc: Rens. County, NY
The turnaround possibility is a good point. When I was a teenager I went fishing in a mine pond. I drove in during daylight, and had to back all the way out, a couple of miles, at night by flashlight. It took a long time. Absolutely nowhere to turn around the truck without getting it hopelessly stuck. After that I always installed or carried a 12v tractor light I could use to see to drive backwards with in every truck I had.

Driving backwards in the snow, especially in a sedan (guessing) would be a huge pain, and in some cars might not be possible without an outside spotter or having your head stuck out the window. I know my current car has lousy visibility to the rear.




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#192077 - 12/29/09 12:47 PM Re: Bad GPS Directions Strand Couple for 3 Days [Re: UpstateTom]
ScouterMan Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 08/19/07
Posts: 65
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
Our Scout camp is located in a state forest. Great location, but difficult to find for first-timers due to the winding forest roads.

We have had parents report that their GPS systems have tried to send them down fire roads or horse trails when getting directions. Luckily, no one (that we know of) has followed those directions.

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#192078 - 12/29/09 01:03 PM Re: Bad GPS Directions Strand Couple for 3 Days [Re: UpstateTom]
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2211
Loc: NE Wisconsin
As I recall, the inability to turn around was an element of the James Kim tragedy too. They had printed out Google Maps (I don't think they were following a GPS route) and the map didn't distinguish between service roads and regularly maintained roads. They missed an exit and turned onto a service road thinking it was a usable alternative route, and were looking for a place where they could turn around their vehicle, but eventually got stuck.

It was that event that made me finally see the light regarding the importance of a PLB. I bought one and have carried it every time I head into a remote area. The McMurdo FastFind 210 at $300 is HALF the price of the one I bought.

Huh ... I just looked up the James Kim information on Wiki ... Did you know that 12 years before the Kim tragedy a man died in the same area after getting stuck? He died of starvation.

Also, in the very same year as the Kim tragedy a motor home with a family of six was stranded in snow in that area. They could actually see reports of the search for them on their TV ... including word that the search had been called off. Two of them finally hiked out for help.

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#192079 - 12/29/09 02:28 PM Re: Bad GPS Directions Strand Couple for 3 Days [Re: KenK]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
It wasn't a GPS with bad directions that caused these people to get stuck. Not in any one of the cases mentioned.

Driving down a road that was impassable for their vehicle was what got them stuck. Even the claim that they could not turn around is ludicrous, there is a reason vehicles have reverse gear.
So tell me how few functioning brain cells a person can have and still appear normal.

This was not the fault of the technology. It was the fault of the people themselves.

I can see getting snowed in by a freak blizzard and needing help, but driving miles down an unplowed road to get stuck is just idiotic.
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#192095 - 12/29/09 04:35 PM Re: Bad GPS Directions Strand Couple for 3 Days [Re: scafool]
Tyber Offline
Sheriff
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/27/09
Posts: 304
Loc: ST. Paul MN
As I read all of us saying that we don't overly have too much faith in Technology,, I myself have been lead astray by technology.

then again there was a time when maps wern't reliable.

the good news was that they couple were prepaird, as most of us here strive to be.

I am left with the feeling that this couple didn't go "gee the snow is deep on this and looks un traversed. we should go back"

then again perhaps backing out would have been just as disasterous.

Regretably a couple of times I have relaized that I needed to back out and discovered myself in a ditch, and Yes I can drive a car backwards,, I just couldn't see the road well.


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