epirider: well said. I'll be taking this next year to try to get that experience.

haertig: I was only quoting what the Web pages on pellet guns are saying. Some high-power weapons are claiming .22 pellets at 1100-1300 fps. That surprised me too. But I couldn't tell you how factual those claims are, or how repeatable. One thing is for sure though ... you hit the nail on the head about COST. The high-power pellet guns are selling for $700-$1000, which is the same price as a nice quality rifle. That doesn't make any sense at all - unless people are just fascinated with air guns for their own sake. Anyway, it was just a curiosity for me.

other Pete

Sounds like many of us have the same problem. We can only manage to trim it down to our top four or five. LOL

There are air rifles that are powerful enough to hunt deer and similar sized animals that are legal to own in countries where firearms are hard to come by.

Expensive? Yep. Available? Yep. Legal? Yep.

Practical? hmmm...depends on your situation.

How about this. Get a shotgun in either O/U or double barrel configuration. Then get various adapters like .22 and 30-30 or 45-70 or 308 or pretty much and caliber. That way you have 3 choices depending on the situation. Also the shotgun is intimidating enough when it needs to be, but not out of place anywhere except in town. Just a thought.

"My only objection there was that it's highly unlikely I will ever need to shoot big game, and the 308 caliber has too much recoil for the women in my family."

It is for this reason I suggested the 7mm-08. All indications are it is mild enough even in a lightweight scout that it would be nearly as tolerable as a 243, shoot nearly as flat, but have superior terminal ballistics and better in the brush. Although Col Cooper never addressed the alternative to the 308, most from his program suggest it is quite capable.

The 22 lr is a good cartridge for practice and for taking small game, but faces too many limitations to consider it as effective as high power centerfire rounds. This is not to say it is useless, just too specialized. Someone proficient and sensible will be able to make the most of having a 22 for survival. It depends, too, on what you are trying to survive. For my consderations, a centerfire high power lightweight bolt action rifle makes the most sense. I wouldn't turn a 22 down if that's all there was, just not my first choice.

Benjammin: I'll take a careful look at the 7mm-08 before making a final decision.

In the mean time, I was looking at the .30-30 rifles by Marlin and they have a good contender in that caliber (a popular lever gun). So if I go that way, I just need to think a bit about barrel length (choice of 20 in, 22 in, or 24 in).

One nice thing I like about the .30-30 and 44-magnum calibers is that they do have some use for defense against big animals, provided they are fired at close ranges. If a bad situation happened with a rogue black bear, they do offer a last-ditch option for protection.

best,
other Pete

You bet Pete, there's nothing wrong with either the 30-30 or the 44 mag, both have been used extensively on medium size game with good effect. For survival I would favor the shorter barrel; more portable.

One thing to keep in mind, if you are getting a firearm that will be used by novice shooters, a lever action is not as easy to operate as a bolt action generally. While most people understand the basics of a lever gun, some of the safety features can be a bit troublesome, especially for smaller/weaker hands. We've had kids in class as young as 8 years of age that can effectively shoot the 243 in a bolt action, and I am sure they could manage the 7/08 just as well.

I don't think there's a bad choice if you consider the intended use well. Even the 22 lr is an effective round for survival, as many will attest to here. So long as you keep in mind the limitations the round and the gun will have, you won't make a mistake. Someone was once quoted as saying "use the biggest, most powerful cartridge you can manage", and that is a fairly important statement, for it does not matter how powerful the cartridge is if you can't hit anything shooting it.

Benjammin: I just took a look at the 7/08 cartridge. I was really unfamiliar with that round. But after checking on the ballistics and performance - that is really an excellent bullet! Furthermore, I also noticed that Browning offers a lot of their hunting rifles in 7/08. So this choice for a general purpose hunting/survival caliber moves into my #1 spot now. Thanks very much for the recommendation.

other Pete

No worries, I believe they even offer it in their BLR lever action model, which allows the use of pointed tip bullets IIRC. I am a big Browning fan as well.

If you go that route, let us know what you think once you get the gun. I'd be interested in more feedback.

My mom was a petite 5'2" and used a 7x57 ai (which is similar
to the 7mm 08) to harvest a lot of deer and antelope.
Her's was in a short action remington bolt, 20 inch barrel, with a 4 power scope and
was suitable for both the plains of Montana and the mountains
of Idaho. I have hunted large pigs with it, my mom once
shot a maurading bear, and I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a elk
with it.