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#191957 - 12/27/09 07:17 PM Re: Whitewater Kayak Survival Kit [Re: AndrewC]
AndrewC Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/27/09
Posts: 59
Loc: Boise, ID
For remote kayaking, I never go with a group of fewer than four people. The most likely reason we'd be unable to paddle out would be a dislocated shoulder. With four people, we'd have two to paddle out to get help and one to stay with the injured person.

The big situation I see which would prevent SAR from reaching us would be severe flooding which forced us away from the river. In that case, our best bet would be hiking to the takeout - not fun in rough terrain and paddling booties! Fortunately, the maximum hike should be less than 15 miles. That's about the maximum distance I'd want to paddle for a daytrip, and we could probably hike out in a few days. For longer trips, the group would have substantially more gear - like sleeping bags, tents, and footwear!

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#191959 - 12/27/09 08:50 PM Re: Whitewater Kayak Survival Kit [Re: AndrewC]
frediver Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 215
Loc: N.Cal.
A bunch of good ideas so far, I agree on more and different tinders, perhaps add some type of billy can.
Now for your basic survival items IMO you should check out the Ribz vest, there was a thread on this a couple weeks ago.
You want your basic items with you in case you are forced to part with your YAK, a Ribz is ideal for this use.


Edited by frediver (12/27/09 09:16 PM)

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#191960 - 12/27/09 09:28 PM Re: Whitewater Kayak Survival Kit [Re: AndrewC]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
Ka-bars are not suitable for water sports. 1095 steel and leather washer handle. Which means it rusts and the handle will disintegrate if its immersed in water for very long.

If you don't mind a suggestion: Google Ragnars forge & buy yourself a stainless steel Mora. Tough, light & sharp.

Other item to add is ferronium rod.
_________________________
I don't do dumb & helpless.

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#191961 - 12/27/09 09:41 PM Re: Whitewater Kayak Survival Kit [Re: AndrewC]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
I'd actually suggest that you buy one of Doug's pocket survival packs and add to it.

Survival prioritys are warmth & water so concentrate on your fire shelter and water groups.
RSK.
Plastic sheet for shelter.
Couple of zip-lock baggies to carry water in.
Knife.
4-6 MP1 tablets.
_________________________
I don't do dumb & helpless.

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#191966 - 12/27/09 10:18 PM Re: Whitewater Kayak Survival Kit [Re: Leigh_Ratcliffe]
AndrewC Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/27/09
Posts: 59
Loc: Boise, ID
Thanks everyone for the input!

I won't be using the ka-bar on the water. It will be safe and dry inside a drybag when I'm on the water. I also got the knife with a synthetic handle, so it shouldn't disintegrate. I will want to replace the leather sheath though! I consider batoning an essential use for this knife - the mora looked a bit too thin for me to want to abuse it like that.

I'll try and track down some thin plastic sheeting - the tarp I saw at Cabela's was very for its size. I've thought about adding a ferronium rod too - I have one, but haven't used it enough to be able to consistently get a fire going with it. More practice!

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#191973 - 12/28/09 12:03 AM Re: Whitewater Kayak Survival Kit [Re: ]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA
my main survival concern is much like yours..the red PFD under my name carry's the gear i would need if i lost my boat and packs.so my question is what is the worse that you are expecting? lose everything and swim to shore,lots of rapids?-water temps?solo?..is this a well know and used river? semi wilderness or play boats?
i carry everything to takes to "camp"--start thinking there..fire-food-shelter..you may to do a search under my name for a layout and breakdown of my kit,the photos were post a couple years ago...
don't skimp and go cheap on this as it could save you life and a 99 cent foil "blanket" from the drug store is not what you would want to depend on..

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#191975 - 12/28/09 12:10 AM Re: Whitewater Kayak Survival Kit [Re: frediver]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Welcome! Sounds like you do some stuff most of us don't - look forward to your contributions.

I'd listen to Canoedogs. He's a pretty avid canoe'r, so he probably has a good grasp on the dangers of being in a small boat in isolated waters.

I've got nothing for you besides a camping-based experience. But my fiance and I are talking about getting kayaks, so I'm paying attention to this thread!

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#191977 - 12/28/09 01:02 AM Re: Whitewater Kayak Survival Kit [Re: MDinana]
AndrewC Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/27/09
Posts: 59
Loc: Boise, ID
This gear would be intended for semi-wilderness day trips. The "worst-case" scenario would be a dislocated shoulder or broken bone in a remote area. I always paddle with a group, and in rapids up to class IV (for now). In those conditions, it is extremely likely my friends would be able to retrieve my boat and gear. In that situation, my plan is to have one person stay with the injured person while the rest of the group paddles out to get help.

I'm not concerned about water temps, since I'll be dressed appropriately for a potential swim. I'm more worried about a sub-freezing night.

I will listen to all the advice, and get the essentials into a pocket - probably a heatsheets bivy bag, a firestarting kit, a few water purification tabs, a pin kit (for retrieving stuck boats) and a bit of food - in addition to my current knife, throw rope, and basic first aid.


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#191981 - 12/28/09 01:11 AM Re: Whitewater Kayak Survival Kit [Re: AndrewC]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
I'm glad our suggestions are helpful. I would just like to add, that at some point as you perfect the gear you carry, that you consider a compact synthetic fiber mummy bag of reasonable quality. You can do without it, but sealed away in double bagged plastic, it will make an impromptu evening out much, much more pleasant.

It will also come in handy in many outdoor situations - a real basic item. I am recommending against my preference which is down. Synthetic fibers are much better around water and humidity.
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Geezer in Chief

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#191983 - 12/28/09 02:04 AM Re: Whitewater Kayak Survival Kit [Re: hikermor]
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2210
Loc: NE Wisconsin
Excuse me if I missed something in this thread - I didn't read every post, but skimmed through it, but ...

It sounds like you're planning on stowing some (all?) of this gear in the kayak, but what happens if you are separated from the kayak?

I recently watch an episode of "I Shouldn't Be Alive" where a father and son went rafting on a river that unknown to them was not yet free of ice. They hit ice, got dumped out of the raft, never saw the raft again, managed to get to shore, and once on land had nothing but a fixed blade knife and a lighter. They managed to get a fire going and warm up enough to survive the night inside a debris shelter. The son (an MD adult with kids) left the father behind, took the only pair of shoes they had (the others were lost in the dump) and hiked to a major river where he waited hoping to be spotted by a plane - it worked, but they would not have made it another day or two.

Similar stuff can happen while backpacking (though many backpackers will get almost violent insisting that it can't happen and that a survival kit is a waste of weight). Imagine heading away from camp at night to dig a cat-hole and you get disoriented on the way back to camp. You're now spending a night in the woods without your primary gear. Hopefully you can find your camp the next day.

With that in mind, I have a few thoughts:

1. Have on your person at all times (imagine getting dumped unexpectedly and having to swim away from your kayak) sufficient gear to survive until help comes.

I'll second Leigh's advice on starting with one of Doug's PSP kits, tuck in a few extra critical components (LED light, mini Bic lighter, a few Micropur tablets), add a knife, some kind of liter-sized water container (HD ziplock bag), simple first aid kit (gauze pads, antibiotic, band aids), and some kind of shelter (very large trash bags, plastic sheets, ...). Keep it small enough to carry on your body.

2. Make sure you've given someone information such that they will miss you and send someone to look for you. Without that, it could be a loooong time before someone comes a lookin'.

3. Seriously consider saving up the money to add a PLB to your kit. It can quickly and easily turn a multi-day agonizing wait hoping for rescue into a few hours (?) of waiting for a sure rescue. Don't underestimate its value. These days a really nice PLB costs no more than a mapping GPS.

And again, the PLB does no good floating down the river without you. Put it on your person with your survival kit. I recently came across a video by Doug Ritter where he said the three most important things you can carry are a knife, a PSP-like kit with some extra add-ins, and a PLB.


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