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#191589 - 12/22/09 11:31 PM Re: Tow Line - Kept in Car [Re: Paul810]
roberttheiii Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 395
Loc: Connecticut, USA
All interesting input. Thanks. I think I'll add a strap. Chain seems a bit much for a relatively light Subaru.

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#191603 - 12/23/09 02:32 AM Re: Tow Line - Kept in Car [Re: roberttheiii]
Mark_M Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 295
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: roberttheiii
As in, he (my uncle) uses chain to hook from his truck to another and rip it out of a snow bank, up a ramp, etc, which as far as I know chain has little stretch and thus would be bad similar to how my line is bad. So I'm curious what Mark_M uses chain for, I'm guessing w/the high-lift or come-along.


Exactly right. If you're using a come-along or especially a jack as a come-along, or a winch, you want as little give in the line as possible. Otherwise you wind up pulling all the stretch out of the line but not moving the vehicle much, (or, in the case of the short pulling length on the jack, not moving at all).

Edit: Found this link on using a High-Lift as a winch: http://vimeo.com/1027546

Even aircraft cable has some give. Chain, on the other hand, doesn't stretch at all. But it's heavy as hell and bulky, and will rust if it stays wet.

BTW, I always throw a couple blankets or coats over the strap, cable or chain, about 1/3 and 2/3 the way from the end, just in case the line snaps. I've never seen it happen, but stories abound of injury from the flying cable or chain hitting bystanders.


Edited by Mark_M (12/23/09 04:00 AM)
_________________________
2010 Jeep JKU Rubicon | 35" KM2 & 4" Lift | Skids | Winch | Recovery Gear | More ...
'13 Wheeling: 8 Camping: 6 | "The trail was rated 5+ and our rigs were -1" -Evan@LIORClub

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#191605 - 12/23/09 02:50 AM Re: Tow Line - Kept in Car [Re: Mark_M]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
I used to use chains most of the time and tow straps some times.

Chain is good and has a lot of control.
You need to tighten up until you have some tension before actually pulling.
It you jerk the vehicles you will damage the vehicles and likely break your chain.

No jerking the load!
Shock loads are very severe loads.
The same is true with cable, rope or straps.


Edited by scafool (12/23/09 03:01 AM)
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#191608 - 12/23/09 03:19 AM Re: Tow Line - Kept in Car [Re: UpstateTom]
Mark_M Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 295
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: UpstateTom
I used to carry a very heavy chain in the my Blazer and then Bronco, and used it to 'unstick' people, and once to get myself unstuck. The trick to using a chain is to be smooth. With the chain I was using there was virtually no stored energy, because there was no measurable stretch. The main danger is in ripping parts off the car, in my experience.
...
IMHO if you need to use kinetic energy to unstick someone, you don't have an adequate solution, you have a dangerous situation.

With a full-size V8 Blazer or Bronc, locked front and rear, bigger tires, and full frame chassis, you have a lot more weight, traction, power and hard mounting points than most of us do with smaller, lighter SUV's. I run a 2007 Nissan Pathfinder and a 2000 Jeep XJ, and these are fairly light vehicles with smaller V6 engines. I've been out in some bogs with the XJ and found I just don't have the traction (on sand or mud) or horsepower to finesse another similar class vehicle out of sticky mud. But with a snatch strap I can generate enough momentum to yank another vehicle loose of the "suck" without risking damage to the limited hard points available on these unit-body designs, and once the suction is broken I can usually pull the rest of the way out of the muck without another snatch.

I've done a fair bit of off-roading and a snatch strap recovery is considered a safe and routine exercise. I always throw a couple blankets, jackets or towels over the line to dampen it if it should break. But from what others have told me (and this has never happened to me), if a strap does break, even with a lot of tension on it, because of its weight and large surface area, it doesn't pose the injury/damage hazard of wire cable or chain.

Winches are good too, especially if you're all alone. But many a time I've seen them overheat and shut-down before the stuck vehicle was recovered, or just not work at all for unknown reasons, or the recovering vehicle drag itself towards the stuck one instead of the other way around. If I get serious about building-out my XJ I'll probably put on a winch, but it's a low priority for me.

As for distance towing in an emergency, again I'd go with a snatch strap. As you observed, it's inevitable that some slack will develop in the line. I once towed a water-locked Jeep YJ about 3 miles through the NJ Pine Barrens on sand roads to get to pavement and waiting flat-bed, so my buddy could avoid a $1,000+ off-road recovery. I know I would have done some damage if I had used a chain instead of the strap.
_________________________
2010 Jeep JKU Rubicon | 35" KM2 & 4" Lift | Skids | Winch | Recovery Gear | More ...
'13 Wheeling: 8 Camping: 6 | "The trail was rated 5+ and our rigs were -1" -Evan@LIORClub

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#191609 - 12/23/09 03:19 AM Re: Tow Line - Kept in Car [Re: Mark_M]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3238
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: Mark_M
You usually want stretchy if using a vehicle to pull another out, the idea being to multiply your vehicle's pulling capability by converting mass x speed into kinetic energy to unstick the stuck vehicle.


With all respect, that's a very tricky game to play. Yes, you can apply a lot more shock force by "taking a run at it." But it substantially increases the possibility of a) the tow line breaking and whipping back, b) one of the vehicle/tow line connections failing under shock load, or c) damage to the vehicle(s) themselves.

The best and safest course is always to take up the slack on the tow line, whatever kind it may be, and then apply force. For stretchy lines, this will provide plenty of "spring." For low-stretch lines like cable or chain, a slight amount of sag will provide some of that spring (better combined with a short stretchy piece if possible).

In any case, IME, if you have more than a few inches of slack in your tow line, you're asking for trouble.

EDIT: You guys beat me to it in the last few posts. I need to refresh the thread before I post anything!


Edited by dougwalkabout (12/23/09 03:22 AM)

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#191610 - 12/23/09 03:52 AM Re: Tow Line - Kept in Car [Re: roberttheiii]
Mark_M Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 295
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: roberttheiii
All interesting input. Thanks. I think I'll add a strap. Chain seems a bit much for a relatively light Subaru.


Make sure you get one that's rated 3x to 4x the weight of your vehicle, and with web loops, NOT HOOKS, on the ends. You'll also need two D-Shackles to connect the strap.

Here's a video on how to use the strap:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JBnxSqpuCM

If you don't have a tow hook you can wrap the strap around the frame of hitch receiver or chassis frame and then close it with the shackle. Don't hook up to an axle, cross-member or part of the suspension, as you'll definitely bend or even remove these parts from the vehicle (I saw a guy pull his driveshaft right out of the transmission when the axle he was hooked to got pulled almost off). But most vehicles have tow hooks, or a socket into which a tow hook stowed in your OEM took kit screws-in. If you don't see them under the bumper check your owner's manual.
_________________________
2010 Jeep JKU Rubicon | 35" KM2 & 4" Lift | Skids | Winch | Recovery Gear | More ...
'13 Wheeling: 8 Camping: 6 | "The trail was rated 5+ and our rigs were -1" -Evan@LIORClub

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#191625 - 12/23/09 12:26 PM Re: Tow Line - Kept in Car [Re: Mark_M]
fasteer Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 63
Loc: away
A couple tow-rope stories… who knows, may impart some wisdom.

About 30 years ago I was a young pup working in rural central Alberta.
A colleague of mine went off the road going down a small valley & ended up in the weeds about 40 feet away from the road.
Snow was about 3 feet deep.
He had a tow-rope of the stretchy variety & I had another.
I was in a Chev ¾ ton 4x4 with tire chains on all 4 wheels.
Started out just pulling gently til the ropes tightened up.
He didn’t budge.
Backed up & took a bit of a run at it.
Hit the end of the stretch & jerked my 4x4 backwards 10 feet.
He didn’t budge.
Backed up as close as I could get, then pinned it in 4-low.
Hit the end of the stretch & the tail-chain on my end of the 2 stretchy tow ropes broke.
The remaining bit of chain & the clevis slingshotted towards the stuck truck at about mach-1& sheared the side mirror off clean as a whistle.
We called a tow-truck.

Another time I was driving on the highway in Northern Alberta.
Freezing rain had made the pavement as slick as a curling rink.
I was likely going 20-mph or less when a Jeep Wrangler passed me, going about 50.
Then he did about 4 donuts on the road & off into the ditch.
Of course I stopped.
When I got out of the truck, I fell down, that’s how icy it was.
Again about 3 feet of snow & although he had 4x4, none of his tires were touching the ground.
I offered to pull him out with my tow rope, but he insisted on using his winch.
Even though I had the far heavier vehicle, it would not stay on the icy road.
He was just winching me into the ditch.
I finally convinced him to try the rope, which popped him out with ease.

My favourite tow-rope story:
A bunch of us guys were out dirt-biking in a river valley, leaving the women to set up a bar-b-que & picnic.
One of the girls drove my buds 2-wheel drive pick-up onto the sandy beach by the river & got it stuck.
My wife-du-jour backed my 4x4 up there & got out my towrope.
She had it properly attached to my tow-hook, but they couldn’t find a tow-hook on the front of my buddies pick-up.
Us boys rolled up on the bikes just as the girls were taking the slack out of the towrope.
They had it woven all through the grill of the truck.
We got them stopped & just fell to the ground laughing.
Another minute & they would have ripped the grill off the truck.

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#191626 - 12/23/09 12:57 PM Re: Tow Line - Kept in Car [Re: fasteer]
fasteer Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 63
Loc: away
OK, here’s a winch story, although it didn’t happen directly to me:
A colleague was out in the wilds of Kazakhstan looking for some old suspended wellsites.
He was in a Landcruiser with a Kazakh driver and a translator.
No roads, just some trails.
They came to a small dried creek-crossing.
My buddy instructed the driver to put it in 4x4 before attempting it, but the driver just went in 2-WD & got stuck.
Only after they were stuck did the driver explain that the 4-wheel drive didn’t work.
The steps of Kazakhstan grow no trees, but my friend is a resourceful guy.
1st he pulled the winch-cable out almost to the end.
Then he & the translator dug a hole in the earth about 2 feet deep & 4 feet across.
This was a tough job using only a wheel wrench & their bare hands.
Finally they took the spare tire, attached it to the cable & buried it in the hole.
After the hole was filled, he told the driver to winch himself out.
Only then did the driver inform them the winch didn’t work.
They spent a long, cold & uncomfortable night in the Landcruiser.
We found them the next morning

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#191635 - 12/23/09 04:11 PM Re: Tow Line - Kept in Car [Re: fasteer]
Tyber Offline
Sheriff
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/27/09
Posts: 304
Loc: ST. Paul MN
Originally Posted By: fasteer
OK, here’s a winch story, although it didn’t happen directly to me:
A colleague was out in the wilds of Kazakhstan looking for some old suspended wellsites.
He was in a Landcruiser with a Kazakh driver and a translator.
No roads, just some trails.
They came to a small dried creek-crossing.
My buddy instructed the driver to put it in 4x4 before attempting it, but the driver just went in 2-WD & got stuck.
Only after they were stuck did the driver explain that the 4-wheel drive didn’t work.
The steps of Kazakhstan grow no trees, but my friend is a resourceful guy.
1st he pulled the winch-cable out almost to the end.
Then he & the translator dug a hole in the earth about 2 feet deep & 4 feet across.
This was a tough job using only a wheel wrench & their bare hands.
Finally they took the spare tire, attached it to the cable & buried it in the hole.
After the hole was filled, he told the driver to winch himself out.
Only then did the driver inform them the winch didn’t work.
They spent a long, cold & uncomfortable night in the Landcruiser.
We found them the next morning



And this is why I am OK with iritating people by asking seeminly obvious questions like "does that work?" and "can we just check?" I have ticked off my fair share of people with my anyoning questions, but they have prevented a few true issues.

I have to add the truck I drive now is 4x4 and I do take it slightly off road but I usualy reserve it to pull people out and to get through dificult roads. then again if you saw the paint job you would wonder if I even drove it in the winter.



Edited by Tyber (12/23/09 04:55 PM)

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#191638 - 12/23/09 04:22 PM Re: Tow Line - Kept in Car [Re: fasteer]
NobodySpecial Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 197
Originally Posted By: fasteer
Finally they took the spare tire, attached it to the cable & buried it in the hole.

In my experience the first thing that is missing is the spare wheel !

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