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#191385 - 12/20/09 08:22 PM Put Your BOB to Use
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
While reading the various threads pertaining to the features, components, and characteristics if the Ultimate Reality Bug Out Bag (URBOB), I thought, "I've been through this before!"

And I had, while participating in search and rescue. We all developed a personal pack, loaded with the goodies we would need to go out into the neighboring countryside (Tucson, Arizona) and help others in distress. While everyone adjusted the contents of their BOB to the changing seasons, we had to be prepared for mountains, deserts, caves and mines, and floods. We routinely operated at night. We were called unpredictably, and launched into the field at illogical times - high noon on a hot June day, into the face of a gathering storm at night - Just the kind of circumstances in which you might have to activate your BOB procedures. We particularly needed to respond quickly, just as one might in BOB situations.

We found it wise to be self sufficient for at least forty-eight hours, if not longer, for every operation. We needed vertical gear, a robust FAK, the ability to sleep comfortably, communicate, and travel through rugged terrain - just as you might in a BOB situation. Speed and mobility were often (but not always!)premium qualities - just like BOB. Always searching for lighter, more versatile gear, it not only had to light, but, most importantly, right... Total weight had to balanced against gear suitability and environmental conditions - sounds like BOB, right? Our winter pack was usually lighter than the summer pack (which in essence was a giant water bottle).

As we did more and more operations, we examined gear critically as it performed (or didn't) in the crucible of SAR ops. Perfecting the load was a never ending process.

I achieved a pack that fit my needs perfectly - and then it was stolen. I submitted a claim under my homeowner's insurance policy and duly received a check. A few months later, I learned that the adjuster had visited the local mountain shop, asking the management there (who knew me well as a regular customer) if I could possibly have been carrying all that stuff in one pack. They grinned and said, "Actually, this is rather thin. He often has more."

So, if you would like to perfect your BOB, volunteer for your local SAR unit. You will gain valuable, realistic real world experience that will serve you well. You will find out how you perform when tired, stressed, and sleep deprived, and what works for you in those conditions. You will be doing some good in the world and, if you are really weird, you might just like it.
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Geezer in Chief

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#191387 - 12/20/09 08:48 PM Re: Put Your BOB to Use [Re: hikermor]
Redbeard Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/25/08
Posts: 22
Loc: CA state of confusion
good stuff...I'd like to see your list of contents!
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#191393 - 12/20/09 11:07 PM Re: Put Your BOB to Use [Re: hikermor]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
The criteria for quality SAR gear is high, and expensive. How much do the members have to buy, try and discard before they find what works and what suits them? A lot, I'll bet. And the good stuff is expensive.

Being a member of SAR is not a cheap endeavor. And most of the SAR people are paying for all of it themselves.

Maybe a donation to your local Search & Rescue would be an appropriate holiday gift to someone you hope you'll never have to meet.

Sue

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#191395 - 12/20/09 11:52 PM Re: Put Your BOB to Use [Re: Susan]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Absolutely not true. Most personal gear is off the shelf standard outdoor gear - REI, Cabelas, Campmor, etc.

There is the issue of specialized items - Stokes and SKED litters, extra long (600') ropes, radios, pagers - those are typically purchased and owned by the organization, not by the individual members. YMMV

You raise an interesting question. How much did I, or the typical member, spend on SAR, beyond what would have been spent on outdoor goodies anyway?

Not very much, in my experience. I did have three kids to educate and put through college, so I did not have unlimited funds, but I don't recall any inordinate strain. I did buy a rather expensive Marmot down bag, light and warm, which could be configured as a double bag if necessary. I carried it on some operations, but I have used it on many more personal trips. Twenty-five years after I purchased it, it is still in service (Real quality gear has a very long service life.)

My most useful stove was a light, cheap Trangia (still available today). I recall fondly a cheap acrylic zippered sweatshirt from Sears that cost, like, $13 - a versatile, useful item.

One of the issues back in the day (70s and 80s) was finding decent, dependable lights. Today, I am amazed at the proliferation of dependable,light, bright LEDs that outshine anything available back then.

One other thing. If I wiped out something significant on an operation, in my setup at least, I could always submit a bill to the Sheriff's Office for reimbursement. This was rarely necessary.

I agree that a donation to your SAR unit would be highly appropriate at this holiday time. Even better, both for you and the unit, would be to also donate yourself.
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Geezer in Chief

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#191402 - 12/21/09 12:41 AM Re: Put Your BOB to Use [Re: hikermor]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2997
Do you get any tax breaks like VFD?

I built my BOB a little different than most and I use it every overnight trip and take it if were drive out of the area. Wikihow had an article not too along ago on how to make a permanent toiletry bag for frequent travelers so they could always have it ready for the next trip. I started doing the same years ago and just this summer added a purpose made toiletry bag to my bob rather than the big ziplock I was using.
If I ever did have to evac, I see more of a NOLA situation happening where I'd need to relocate to another house/apartment/hotel rather than a tent in the woods so I prepare more for that. My BOB consists of that toiletry bag which also has my FAK supplies in it and then the rest of my BOB which has some outdoor type gear but also other gear like my netbook which would be useful for living out of a hotel for a while and assist with restarting my life.

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#191405 - 12/21/09 01:53 AM Re: Put Your BOB to Use [Re: hikermor]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Hikermor, expense is in the eye of the beholder. The prices at Cabelas and REI make me cringe. I could no more afford a $95 backpack or a $300 sleeping back than I could fly to the moon by flapping my arms.

But overall, I still maintain that SAR people have a lot invested in their equipment.

Sue

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#191411 - 12/21/09 04:20 AM Re: Put Your BOB to Use [Re: Eugene]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2851
Loc: La-USA
Since I travel so much, I keep my shaving kit intact always. I restock it (as needed) before I leave on each trip.

I've got a large carabiner on it's handle and on the handles of my FAK (with my prescriptions and vitamins), and on my "Possibles Bag". These can all be quickly attached to my GHB if I have to get off of the boat and walk, or to my BoB when needed and when I go camping.
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QMC, USCG (Ret)
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#191421 - 12/21/09 12:08 PM Re: Put Your BOB to Use [Re: ]
sak45acp Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 16
Loc: ct
Originally Posted By: IzzyJG99
Originally Posted By: Susan
Hikermor, expense is in the eye of the beholder. The prices at Cabelas and REI make me cringe. I could no more afford a $95 backpack or a $300 sleeping back than I could fly to the moon by flapping my arms.

But overall, I still maintain that SAR people have a lot invested in their equipment.

Sue


Not to hijack the thread, but I have talked to people from both Cabellas and REI and they even are like "I have no idea why we charge so much." One of the guys at REI said "Just go online to Oregon Mountain Co-Op and buy this bag there. It's 70 bucks cheaper." I did.

I've only met one person who has ever gotten anything out of REI and that's the only person I know who bought the REI Club Card thing. He's also one of those guys who drives a Subaru Outback, dresses like he hikes and camps...but never hikes or camps. Ever. It's a "Trend" thing to clothe yourself in REI where he lives.


Having worked for a large outdoor chain in the past (similar to REI without the co-op), I can tell you that the items "cost so much" because the retail price is typically around 100% markup from the cost to the company. Even when stuff is marked at 70% clearance price the company is still making some kind of money off it. If you don't want to pay the full retail price, everything in the store is on sale at some point, and will go on clearance at the end of the season. You can often find the same stuff online at reduced prices, as mentioned above, because the online guys buy up over runs, unsold stock, etc and don't have to charge so much to make their money. As also mentioned, most of the large store chains make most of their money off customers that will never use the products they buy for their intended use, or to the their full potential of use.

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#191429 - 12/21/09 01:43 PM Re: Put Your BOB to Use [Re: sak45acp]
jaywalke Offline
Member

Registered: 12/22/07
Posts: 172
Loc: Appalachian mountains
When I did SAR, I carried the heaviest-duty versions of my usual hiking gear (i.e. Leatherman over a tiny SAK, Cordura rucksack rather than a sil-nylon backpack). Tough clothes were a must, since bashing through briers and brush was part of every search around here. The only additional expense (thing I didn't have in the closet) was for a few minor required items like leather gloves, 20' of nylon webbing, and 2 locking 'biners.


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#191437 - 12/21/09 02:33 PM Re: Put Your BOB to Use [Re: ]
Doug_SE_MI Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/05/08
Posts: 35
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: IzzyJG99
Originally Posted By: Susan
Hikermor, expense is in the eye of the beholder. The prices at Cabelas and REI make me cringe. I could no more afford a $95 backpack or a $300 sleeping back than I could fly to the moon by flapping my arms.

But overall, I still maintain that SAR people have a lot invested in their equipment.

Sue


Not to hijack the thread, but I have talked to people from both Cabellas and REI and they even are like "I have no idea why we charge so much." One of the guys at REI said "Just go online to Oregon Mountain Co-Op and buy this bag there. It's 70 bucks cheaper." I did.

I've only met one person who has ever gotten anything out of REI and that's the only person I know who bought the REI Club Card thing. He's also one of those guys who drives a Subaru Outback, dresses like he hikes and camps...but never hikes or camps. Ever. It's a "Trend" thing to clothe yourself in REI where he lives.


I became an REI member in 1981, when there was only one and you could always find a bargain. I still buy at REI, now that there is on near me in Michigan, but usually clearance, sale and unique items. They do stand behind their products. They replaced, no questions asked, the REI branded messenger bag I'd carried almost a year when one of the carry loops started unraveling. And I've been wearing the same REI brand fleece jacket for over 6 years, with little sign of wear even though it gets hard use. Cabela's too, I've gotten some great bargains on shirts, shoes....

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#191438 - 12/21/09 02:34 PM Re: Put Your BOB to Use [Re: ]
Loganenator Offline
Bike guy
Member

Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 151
Loc: Sacramento, CA, USA
Izzy,

Did you mean the Oregon Mountain Community? (e-omc.com) I couldn't find anything on "Oregon Mountain Co-op". Canada has a Mountain Equipment Co-op (MEC) but the closest thing to that in the USA is REI.

Thanks for the clarification! smile
~L
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You must be the change you wish to see in the world - MK Gandhi


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#191455 - 12/21/09 03:50 PM Re: Put Your BOB to Use [Re: ]
Loganenator Offline
Bike guy
Member

Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 151
Loc: Sacramento, CA, USA
Hey no worries! Your informational tip is great to know! I will be moving to Portland, OR soon and its great to see there will be a local store I can rely on for great gear at a reasonable price. smile

Cheers,
L
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You must be the change you wish to see in the world - MK Gandhi


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#191465 - 12/21/09 05:26 PM Re: Put Your BOB to Use [Re: NightHiker]
Tyber Offline
Sheriff
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/27/09
Posts: 304
Loc: ST. Paul MN
I did SAR in Alaska for 5 years, from 1994 to 1999. I still apply the same techniques to my BOB and Truck bag and my "Man Bag" as I pack and plan for them. They are a little heavier than the average persons bags but mostly they server purposes that most don't think of or even consider why I would need an item.

The thing about SAR here is that I am just confounded trying to find a SAR team at all. The best I found ws the MNSAR Dogs that do K-9 SAR. My town doesn't even have a CERT team!! The best I can get is to become a glorified trafic director.

I had even offered to help with the technical rescue team and well you would have thought I slapped them in the face. LOL teach me to make more money in th IT industry,,, aparently being a geek means that I have no skills to offer the Fire people.

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#191537 - 12/22/09 01:40 PM Re: Put Your BOB to Use [Re: NightHiker]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: NightHiker
Originally Posted By: Doug_Botimer
I became an REI member in 1981, when there was only one and you could always find a bargain.... but usually clearance, sale and unique items.


Ditto, except it's 1986 for me.


OK, kids, I joined in 1963. I've got a five digit membership number, which is kind of fun to flaunt at the cash register. I have had great experiences with REI over the years, especially the time when we needed an odd size pair of crampons, and REI mailed the crampons, while we simultaneously mailed the check (credit cards had not yet come into use).

They are not what they used to be, when they had low prices and a dividend, but they still can offer a good value, and a huge inventory.

Poseurs are everywhere, and they are the reason that all outdoor gear companies eventually wind up with an extensive line of casual, outdoor-like clothing - Patagonia, North Face - it happens to the best.
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Geezer in Chief

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#191540 - 12/22/09 01:55 PM Re: Put Your BOB to Use [Re: Eugene]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: Eugene
Do you get any tax breaks like VFD?


There are tax breaks - I could deduct mileage and expenses for missions, training,and meetings, as well as specialized gear purchases. I kept careful track of that stuff.

I was fortunate that my employer had a provision for up to 40 hours administrative leave for charitable organizations per year. That helped when missions ran over into the work week. I was eventually able to get a four day 10 hour work week, Tuesday to Friday, which was nice.

When people see you are for real, they will help..
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Geezer in Chief

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#191541 - 12/22/09 02:03 PM Re: Put Your BOB to Use [Re: hikermor]
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland

Quote:
OK, kids, I joined in 1963. I've got a five digit membership number, which is kind of fun to flaunt at the cash register.

You have me beat, I joined in 1973, so I have 6 digit number.

Pete

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#191543 - 12/22/09 02:14 PM Re: Put Your BOB to Use [Re: Susan]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: Susan
Hikermor, expense is in the eye of the beholder. The prices at Cabelas and REI make me cringe


Agreed, I cringe too, but I shop carefully and save my coins and eventually get the appropriate item, whatever it costs. Note I said appropriate, not necessarily expensive.

Story time. Throw another log on the fire...

Two of my climbing buddies and I volunteered to help search for three Boy Scouts gone missing on a local mountain in a ferocious and unseasonal storm. Using snowshoes we were dispatched to a forest service cabin high on the slopes, from which we could reach the summit and determine if they had gotten that far. When we got to the cabins, one of my companions had frost nipped feet, and the other was totally exhausted. I was in relatively good shape, and was able to get a fire going, produce hot liquids and food, etc. The reason for this was my recently purchased, insanely expensive Swiss mountaineering boots which cost me the princely sum of $35. That was a lot of money in the 50s for a college student, but those boots proved their worth. I realized that night, as my friend tucked his frosty feet into my bag for rewarming, that, indeed, expense is in the eye of the beholder. It is just that perspective changes radically when you get into the wilderness. Money doesn't matter there.

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Geezer in Chief

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#191544 - 12/22/09 02:18 PM Re: Put Your BOB to Use [Re: paramedicpete]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
The friend who clued me into REI joined about 1959. He has a four digit number.

I believe REI is currently honoring the wife of one of the original founders, still alive and kicking in her 90s.
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Geezer in Chief

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#191545 - 12/22/09 02:19 PM Re: Put Your BOB to Use [Re: paramedicpete]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
1987 -- 8 digit membership #, feels like I'm late to the party wink
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Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#191672 - 12/24/09 02:16 AM Re: Put Your BOB to Use [Re: Russ]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
Okay, I'll throw my REI card into the mix. BTW, isn't it great when you walk up to the counter and tell the employee you're going to use your REI # and not your phone #.

I got my membership in 1979 and it has 6 digits, Though I would like to petition the moderator for some leeway. I was 9 when I got my card.
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