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#191097 - 12/17/09 04:08 AM Any Ideas what this could be?
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Any Ideas what this could be?



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnew...ers-Norway.html

Now I would consider this to be somewhat of a mystery especially this event was recorded widely throughout Norway.

What is really startling is the way the luminous spiral just seems to be consumed by the expanding disk of darkness which radiates out from the centre of the rotating spiral and the bluish green spiral with its reduced radius as it spirals towards the earth would suggest the effects of increasing atmospheric air density as spiralling electrons i.e a massive electron discharge as in a Cyclotron motion make there way to earth.




Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (12/17/09 04:11 AM)

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#191098 - 12/17/09 04:18 AM Re: Any Ideas what this could be? [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
CANOEDOGS Offline
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Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA
old news--it's a Russian rocket test gone bad.i looked at the newspaper from Norway-on the web-and they had photos of it forming and it makes a lot more sense that way..

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#191099 - 12/17/09 04:28 AM Re: Any Ideas what this could be? [Re: CANOEDOGS]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

I do not buy the Russian missile test gone bad story I'm afraid for various reasons.


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#191103 - 12/17/09 05:56 AM Re: Any Ideas what this could be? [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Todd W Offline
Product Tester
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Registered: 11/14/04
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Loc: Mountains of CA
It's a "fricken laser" laugh
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#191116 - 12/17/09 12:02 PM Re: Any Ideas what this could be? [Re: Todd W]
oldsoldier Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 742
Loc: MA
Thew whole "consumed by darkness" thing may simply be explained away by the error of the human eye. Notice I said MAY.
Here is what I think about that; the human eye often perceives the moon as being closer, or farther away, at certain times of the night. Yet, the distance doesnt really vary (not enough for us to visually perceive it, anyway). Instead, it is a matter of perception due to, when it rises, being close to the horizon, thus giving a point of reference. I am sure that the atmosphere plays into it too, but the moon isnt really any closer when it rises at night then when it is high in the sky, the same night. Our eyes are easily confused.
I think a similar thing happened with that spiral. The "consuming disk of darkness" may just be what our eyes perceived-first, there was a bright spot in the sky, rendering all darkness around it a lot blacker than it likely is (think of sitting by a campfire at night, and how "dark" it looks just beyond it), and thus, the eye is fooled. Its sort of a natural trick.
This is just my own conclusion-not a theory I am putting forth. I REALLY dont think we are being invaded by aliens, nor is there some super secret teleporter technology, or any such thing as that. I simply think that it was what was reported. A missle test gone awry, and the Russians caught with their pants down. What the missle may have been CARRYING, who knows.
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#191118 - 12/17/09 12:56 PM Re: Any Ideas what this could be? [Re: oldsoldier]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
For your information, this curious light phenomen was observed throughout central and northern Norway, spanning a distance of about 1900 kilometres (just below 1200 miles!). Just around 8-ish AM, if I remember correctly. A lot of people on their way to job saw it. (Yep, friggin dark here at 8am at this time of year). Lots of videos and photos posted in the media, most of them taken by low quality cell phone camera.

As far as I know, no one has given a solid explanation for what it is. Many, including most media, jumped to the "must be a russian rocket"-conclusion. But (to my knowledge) nobody has (yet) given a good explanation of how a rocket can give such a light show. And no one has been able to confirm Russian rocket activity either. That doesn't mean it wasn't a Russian rocket, and the Russian haven't been exactly forthcoming on this issue...

In the absence of other reliable explanations, I'm inclined to believe the Russian rocket theory. Still, I would appreciate a more solid explanation of HOW a rocket can give such a light show...

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#191138 - 12/17/09 03:44 PM Re: Any Ideas what this could be? [Re: MostlyHarmless]
bsmith Offline
day hiker
Addict

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 590
Loc: ventura county, ca
Originally Posted By: MostlyHarmless
Still, I would appreciate a more solid explanation of HOW a rocket can give such a light show...

i live on the coast of california, south of vandenberg air force base - which is also on the coast.

vandenberg launches military rockets that carry a variety of payloads, mainly secret spy stuff.

when one knows when the launch will occur - on the net, just look around - and can spend the time waiting for the rocket to go up, and if the flight is in daylight, and if the sun is out and if there are no clouds, and if the viewing angle is just right, you can see the trail - which is the spent rocket fuel - in a variety of colors. it is beautiful. i have seen it as it spreads across the sky. but it doesn't occur frequently as described - there are a lot of ifs.

google in 'google images' for 'rocket trail' for examples.

and i could understand a rocket spinning out of control spewing the spent fuel - as in the photo.


Edited by bsmith (12/17/09 06:48 PM)
Edit Reason: google images
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#191139 - 12/17/09 03:48 PM Re: Any Ideas what this could be? [Re: MostlyHarmless]
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2211
Loc: NE Wisconsin
I've seen this before somewhere ...

Hmmm ... I KNOW I've seen it before ....

OH!!!



grin

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#191141 - 12/17/09 04:11 PM Re: Any Ideas what this could be? [Re: KenK]
Compugeek Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 392
Loc: San Diego, CA
Am_Fear, why do you reject the booster explanation?

It makes sense, it's explainable with known factors, similar examples exist, and it doesn't postulate unnecessary entities.
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#191153 - 12/17/09 07:06 PM Re: Any Ideas what this could be? [Re: Compugeek]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GSa2wRtZRI

This is quite a good video which would explain the Russian Missile booster launch failure at a cursory level. But it is riddled with problems.



Where this photo was taken was indeed taken at 73.034N and 20.991E @ Skjervoy

The analysis has failed to take into the following considerations.

The spiral axis within the video did not move. If the directional axis of the missile in which the missile directional vector is matched to the end point location at skjervoy, in which the photograph was taken then again videoed at another location and such as Tromso (88km away) then this would suggest a non moving stationary position where the centre of the spiral is being photographed from and not a missile moving on a ballistic trajectory, which has ended up almost perpendicular to the initial trajectory of missile according to the analysis in the above youtube video.

There are two spiral arms (assuming the luminous arms are expended rocket fuel propellant), the Missile only has a single solid 1st booster stage and did not carry any liquid fuel being a completely solid propellant fueled multistage missile.

The supposed missile launch is meant to be over 800km away putting the missile (centre of the spiral) at an altitude of 97 miles altitude (a little bit more as the earths curvature has not been taken into account). But this would mean that the expended propellant (the outer circle of the spiral) is over 120 miles diameter. How does rocket propellant endup @ 80 miles higher altitude than the supposed missile itself. The less gravity argument being less in the youtube video is bogus.

What is illuminating the spiral which is extended over 120 miles in diamter. Well it certainly would not be rocket booster motor itself. This would only leave the sun to illuminate the particulates in the spiral, when then gives the massive problem of the expanding dark disk which eliminated from the centre of the spiral. If the rising sun was the energy source for the illuminated expended rocket fuel then the visual signature of the spiral would have even become more pronounced with the rising sun just over the horizon. Although at Skjervoy the sun does not rise completely above the horizon at all due to the latitude and time of year.

The size of the event and the symmetry. There is not enough rocket fuel in the supposed missile (RSM-56 is 36.8 metric tons so <30 tonnes solid propellant) to generate the volume of luminous spiral arms if we assume a 160-180 mile diameter.

The all most perfect circular symmetry cannot be explained if the event was occurring from the troposphere (lower radius of the bottom spiral) through the ionosphere upto altitudes where LOEs are operating i.e. 160-180 miles (upper part of the spiral radius). If this was indeed rocket propellant extending from the lower atmoshphere i.e. upper troposphere to the upper ionosphere and beyond into LOE atitudes (reasonably hard vacuum) there would be no spiral as the expended propellant gas will expand at substantially different rates.

The initial denial's by the Russian authorities as to the test. Even the North Koreans and Iranians will tell the rest of the world when a ballistic missile launch is taking place. Why deny something that you would have communicated out to the rest of world earlier anyway.

But the hardest issue I have is with the rapidly expanding dark centre spot (approx 10-25 miles per second).



Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (12/17/09 07:14 PM)

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