Aren't locator beacons for the unexpected, almost by definition?

I join the discussion late, but I advocate Sue's sentiments.

I've been beaten about the head and neck on this forum in the past for posting similar opinions about people and their responsibility for their own actions. Seems on a regular basis we are seeing posts of events where someone did not prepare adequately for a given endeavor. Seems these people figure that if things go bad, someone will be there to come bail them out of their troubles. It seems that the same mistakes get made repeatedly at much the same locations, under much the same conditions, by people regarded as "experts", who nonetheless head up the hill, or down the trail, or wherever they want to go, and make at least one poor decision that bites them in the backside.

That these experts are now in a bad way and suffering (yet again) is tragic or at least sad in that it was needless, and compounded by the stress being put on the would-be rescuers, family and friends of those missing, and the finances allocated to the effort to save these people. Any who die in this event are candidates for the Darwin Award to be sure. They all deserve an honorable mention at the least.

The premise of our advocacy here is that people need to be equipped to survive the situations they place themselves into. While I long to be compassionate on the matter, I have no problem pointing out that not being properly equipped is not only ill advised, but inexusable, as no one is being forced to climb any mountain, hike any trail, run any rapids, or jump from any airplane, at least not without the opportunity to properly prepare for such events. Doing so is no different than driving down the road at night without your headlights on, or not using the safety on a firearm. There's no good excuse, and anyone who would do such a thing is a fool, or just plain stupid; too stupid perhaps to be allowed the privilege any longer.

My compassion for such individuals if further diminished when such foolish acts are undertaken without due consideration of the consequences for others. My compassion approaches non-existent when I am the one who has to continually pay a price for repeated foolish events without any due benefit on my part.

Life is fragile, and we've managed to mitigate in time many of the challenges that made life a lot more difficult than it is today. That is not to say we shouldn't challenge ourselves in other ways, as this is what helps keep us healthy. Making something difficult doesn't mean you have to intentionally introduce risk into an equation where it is not needed. Variables can be introduced that provide for adventure, challenge, and reward without incorporating a greater than ambient likelihood of danger.

If we can gather anything positive from this experience, as with it's myriad predecessors, let us then refer to it as an example of a situation all of us should endeavor to avoid.

Hi.

I know one of the people on Mt. Hood and it really saddens me to no end to see how so many can be the Monday morning armchair expert and jump to so many wild conclusions without all the facts. The use of words such as bozo, fools, Darwin awards is unwarranted, callous and smacks of the poster's ignorance of facts and truth.

And truth be told that these facts may never be known except to those who are there and may never be found to tell us what really happened. I can say this, they were experienced and prepared for the climb and like so many other mountaineers around the world, know full well the risk involved and would never ask that any one put themselves in harms way to attempt rescue.

As an experienced mountain climber myself, I know that a PLB, SPOT etc is no guarantee of rescue and I have seen first hand where climbers had such equipment that injuries have prevented them from using the equipment to signal for help.

I have lurked here for awhile and this is probably my first and last post. I apologize if I offended anyone here with my remarks.

Sorry if your friend is missing and at risk. I have lost friends myself in the mountains. It's no fun.

I took a quick look at posted pictures of the climbers. The body recovered so far belongs to Luke Gullberg - who appears to be the oldest male and the strongest member of the team. It would make sense for him to try to descend in the storm to get help - if his friends were in danger. There is good reason to be concerned about the long-term endurance of his other two companions.

You can have the satisfaction of knowing that Mr Gullberg tried to do what was best to save his friends.

other Pete

It is different when it's one of your own. I know. I regret that you seem to have taken offense. My thoughts and prayers are with the climbers and their families.

As a group dedicated to surviving emergencies, sometimes we make rather harsh judgments about those who find themselves in harm's way. Often, we fail to distinguish between those who know and weigh the risks but choose to accept them in pursuit of sport and recreation, and those who blindly stumble into danger. Also, our group's purpose is not to condemn, but to derive useful lessons about avoiding and surviving emergencies. Moreover, it's true that only few here have extensive specific experience in the various aviation, maritime and wilderness environments that may be discussed. So I hope you'll contribute your expertise and educate us, rather than bow out.

Your post is welcome - a much needed antidote to some very callous, unfounded speculation .

I hope they are found safe and we eventually learn the full story.

Here's a map of the mountain showing where the climber was found in relation to Timberline Lodge, where they parked.

To Teslinhiker: my condolences on being in this situation of worrying about your friend. It is admirable that you speak up on their behalf. It must surely be difficult to read criticisms but try to take heart in the countless prayers and good thoughts being expressed here and elsewhere for your friend's safe return. The caring far transcends the criticism.

With 24/7 media coverage and instant Internet feedback, private citizens at the center of news stories are suddenly thrust into the public eye and discourse in a manner they would not have been in years past. The glare of the spotlight is often harsh and not always fair.

If I ever get in a situation where rescue is required and I survive, I'll need to remember not to Google myself.

After working in ER's for a long time, docs, nurses, techs get burned out, and start to think that the patients are fools who pursued bad habits and made bad choices, and richly deserve their gunshot wounds, heart attacks and strokes. In fact, ED staff are ED staff by choice, and can stop doing it whenever they choose to do so. It is hard to get the burnouts to quit the ER, so they stay there, being and angry at the patients that are the reason for the ER's existence, and much less effective at their jobs than they once were. It is tough to recognize the symptoms in oneself, and scary to make the move out of the ER into some other employment setting. Happened to me. Probably happens to SAR personnel and survival listserv participants, too. The take-away might be: If I am really angry at folks lost in the snow on Mt Hood, maybe it says more about me than about the lost folks.

Society has leaned towards Susans thoughts on dealing with idiots. Insurance is needed for operating cars, owning a home, maintaining ones health, protecting ones wealth and covering ones liability. If you create an expense for someone else, you pay the bill. A beacon will minimize the bill.

I don't care if the idiots hike nude or with snow camo on. If an idiot needs a wrecker, he or his insurance pays for the wrecker. If the idiot wants to minimize the wrecker bill, take whatever precautions necessary to guarantee not having to make the call.

If you bill them all, few will need rescue. None will need rescue twice.

Update: the climber who was found yesterday died of hypothermia, not trauma.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/12/post_76.html

Gullberg died of hypothermia, said Dr. Chris Young of the state medical examiner's office.

Young said his post-mortem showed what the search team who found him surmised: Gullberg survived "a long, slow" fall and then was able to walk and crawl several hundred yards before expiring.

Hypothermia is an abnormally low body temperature that leads to confusion and lethargy. If untreated it can lead to death.

"He had minor trauma, but nothing lethal," Young said.


"They are extremely physically strong individuals, all three of them were" said Teri Preiss, Vietti's aunt. "I think they're strong enough that they're still alive, But today is our day."

Preiss said she introduced Vietti to Nolan because they both loved climbing and sometimes climbed alone.

Searcher Nate Thompson said climbers hope to search the mountain above 10,000 feet today after finding no sign of Vietti and Nolan at lower elevations. But he stressed that the avalanche danger at that elevation is "extreme."

"We're going to do what we can for as long as we can," said rescue worker Nate Thompson. "We're not putting a cap or a time limit on this."