For years I've kept a folding entrenching tool type shovel in my car. I went to college in Vermont and lots of people carried full sized snow shovels in their cars. My feeling was always that a snow shovel is great at home for clearing fresh snow, but if I'm off the road someplace, or trying to get over a mound of snow at the curb, it is likely that my car will be high centered on packed snow and a plastic or even metal snow shovel wouldn't be up to hacking away at the compacted snow.

What does everyone think? I've never needed my entrenching tool, but I'm working on getting my girlfriend's car in shape and she looked at me funny when I showed her the cold steel shovel I ordered. I explained why I went with it and she seems to get it now.

Am I doing the wrong thing and leaving my girlfriend poorly equipped? Also, I ordered the same shovel as a gift for my brother, to keep in his Suburban. Back when that truck belonged to my dad we got it high centered and didn't have anything to get it off!

I'll concede that having both might not be bad, but space is somewhat at a premium, so if you had to pick one...

You are absolutely right in your choice of a shovel. A small conventional shovel, compared to a snow shovel, is far more versatile.

I don't know if the Cold Steel shovel comes sharpened, but a good edge adds to its versatility, particularly when you are hacking away at something just at arm's reach beneath the vehicle.

I keep a small shovel in my vehicles, year round, even here is So Cal.

I also keep mine year round. I do enough dumb stuff in the summer to warrant it.

I'll probably put an edge on my bro's, but I may not on my gf's. We'll see how comfortable she is w/it.

Thanks!

I use two:

One of those small, flat collapsible showels sits permanently in the spare wheel drum. It is similar to this one:
Gerber NATO shovel, but a different maker.
It is about a foot and a half long, folds in 3 segments (showel head + shaft + D handle). The shovel blade is solid steel, about 4-5 inches wide and a bit longer. The blade can be mounted at 90 degrees, so it will also serve as a small picket . The purpose of this showel is threefold:
- I always have SOMETHING (too small to be really effective, but much better than nothing).
- It is very good for clearing ice and hard snow.
- It is a makeshift "entering" tool for smashing wind screens and the like.


The other one is a cheap knock-off of the Ortovox Pro shovel
Ortovox pro shovel
It packs flat enough to sit under the passenger seat in the winter time - easy to get and big enough to be effective moving that fluffy pile of snow.


I won't have the heavy steel NATO shovel in my passenger compartment - but it resides permanently in the spare wheel drum. Most of the time, most task can be solved with the bigger plastic Ortovox copy, which is easy to reach. The NATO shovel is too small to be effective in snow, but will work on ice, hard snow and also on mud, dirt and sand - and also smash windshields if need be.

I vote for a snow shovel. Mine moves more snow, even hard packed, faster and more easily than an entrenching tool.

I keep a NATO e-tool in my car year round, but have a collapsible handle snow shovel for winter. It is a standard snow shovel with large steel reinforced scoop and D handle, but the shaft telescopes. The scoop carries a lot more snow each load than any standard shovel.

Got mine at Tru-Value for about $15.

Doug
Former USMC Mountain Warfare instructor(76-77)

full size--you can move more faster and have some leverage with it.like most people in the midwest i moved a lot of snow yesterday,the snow blower got the big stuff bit i still had to work around steps and narrow spots with a shovel and looking back using a e-tool would have been a lot of bending over and getting small scoops.if you don't have room for a normal snow shovel at least get a coal shovel--a bit shorter with a D handle and a flat edge..i used one yesterday in the real tight spots the are made well and won't bust.

Army shovel year around, add a sturdy aluminum snow shovel
for winter.

When it is cold or wet and you may be stuck in a hazardous
spot along the road, you don't want to spend any extra time
shoveling.

For moving snow in snow season I vote for an avalanche shovel, I have a Voile, like this (D handle) http://www.rei.com/product/716239. I throw mine in the back, it came in handy for shovelling out a couple stranged motorists and also a stuck dunderhead who slid off the road outside my house last winter. It moves alot of snow quickly, is durable, and I also use it for winter hiking and camping.

Paranoia is good right?
I have both in my trunk tear round. An old Oak and Steel ET that I picked up somewhere and a collapsible snow shovel. (New England) It may be overkill but the wife and I spend enough time away from civilization that I just leave that kind of stuff there, along with a wool blanket, first aid, duct tape etc....after all, that is what a trunk is for right?

I have snow shovels at home, of course. As I expected everyone is basically saying both

I may keep a snow shovel in my car, but I doubt my gf would be willing to carry both.

My cars have 2 shovels in them year round. One foldable metal shovel (like this or this ) and the other is a collapsible plastic snow shovel (something like this ).

The plastic snow shovel is better at getting the looser snow out of the way quickly while the metal is better at breaking up and removing the hard packed stuff.

Actually, the plastic shovel was part of a pre-packaged car kit, similar to this one (it looks like they've modified the contents a bit since we got them). The nice thing about this kit is the snow shovel fits nicely inside the bag and the bag has room to keep a foldable metal shovel either inside or in its side pocket ... it also has plenty of room to add all sorts of stuff.

This keeps all the emergency gear in one, fairly compact, package.

Over the years I have looked at this multiuse gear set many times, but I do not see a snow shovel option:

http://www.billet4x4.com/pro-maxax.htm

I'll relate my shovel experience from trying to dig out my dakota out of snow in a pasture several times last winter.

1. I had a gerber e-tool and I hated it. It is too short to move any large quantities of snow. Plus the spade configuration isn't a perfect 90 degrees. It's designed to be an excellent hoe, but it makes it incredibly hard to use if you want to dig snow out from under your vehicle.

2. Normally I wound up using a run of the mill aluminum scoop shovel to dig myself out. These worked pretty good if you had to clear snow in front of you or if the snow was soft. It would still work in hard snow, but it took a lot of effort. Also the size can make it hard to dig out the underside of my truck.

3. One shovel I had along a few times would be a square headed steel shovel. It can't move a lot of snow, but it worked great on hard snow and for clearing the underside of the truck.

Ideally I'd want a fullsize version of a aluminum scoop shovel and a steel shovel since that an tackle most instances. The little folding shovels can do somethings, but I realized that I wouldn't necessarily want to rely on just one of those since they can't clear much snow. Of course just about everytime I got stuck, it was so bad that I was having to clear snow out from the entire underside of the truck(usually I was falling through hard snowpack), so a big shovel was a necessity.

When it comes to shovels.. 1 is none.

MANY times we've broken shovels with wood handles, or not been able to open the trenching shovels... big scoop snow shovel + trenching tool is a minimum for us in winter weather. Each rig that goes snow 4wheeling has at least 2 shovels, normally similar combo.

I broke my favorite powder scooper yesterday... going to go with a light-weight al handle to fix it UP

While I don't need one now, I was big fan of using a garden hoe. An entrenching tool does the same. Mostly I say this for under car/tire work, not making a road to get out.

Robert:

The question is, "will your girlfriend use the shovel?"
putting it in her car and haiving it is great but if she won't use it then it is not worth it. it may be better to by a AAA membership.

The trenching tool is great, but the worst snow shovel but an awsome way to move snow under a stuck car. I have a Black Dimond Avalance Shovel but that can be very cost prohibative.

Agreed on AAA. She and I are already members, but I feel the shovel is still important to have. Thanks for all the info!

I carry a long handled round mouth shovel in my truck all the time and add a very large long D-handled show shovel in the winter. For years I have used a plastic scoop version but had difficulty with crusty snow last year so yesterday I bought an aluminum version.

My shovels are kept in the back of my truck in plain sight and would be easy to steal. So now I spray paint them all black, you hardly notice them now as they blend in with the bed-liner or rear window cage. I did the same "camo" treatment to my Jack-All.

Mike

A good sized spade is what I would go with. A good spade is good in soil and sand and moderately effective in snow and ice. It is an all-purpose choice. A snow shovel is best for snow but about useless in hard dirt. Compact field shovels, entrenching tools, are minimalist adventures. Far better than nothing, and perhaps all one can afford to carry in terms of weight and bulk, but even the best of them is pretty poor in function compared to a full sized spade. IMO the Cold Steel version is hugely overpriced for what it is.

I would go for one with a sturdy fiberglass handle and these have gone down in price. Wood handles shovels break because they were shoddy to begin with or deteriorate in time. Test it before you buy, if it breaks in the store you're saving them the embarrassment of a return, then maintain, clean, oil and inspect, it regularly and it will be dependable.

Then again some people are hard on equipment by preference or technique. Not something to brag about or to be proud of. We had a young buck who would break the shovels to keep from digging. We welded up a piece of quarter inch steel to length of two inch pipe and had him dig with that. After a day of having to keep up or be fired, he could barely lift his arms, he treated his equipment with more respect. A valuable lesson.

I had to call AAA. And then I got a call from the tow people they first saidt hey could NOT make it down my street.. I let them know it was icey but plowed. I got a call later they were on the way. I talked to the driver a bit... less than a full night sleep in a week, 30+ calls per-day to pull people out who are stuck. If I had to wait for a flat bed it would have been 3-5 hours. AAA = awesome, but I wouldn't rely on them getting you out of the snow in a timely matter, or at all if it's real bad. Setup a good network of friends to call, check in with, etc..

This fits nicely in my car kit. Haven't had to use it yet. Feels very sturdy.

When I was driving a pickup & had the space for it, I carried this.

Holy cow, Mike, have you been peeking into the back of my car?

Very similar setup here:

- A long-handled spade, always, for fighting "found" grassfires, liberating small pines under power lines, and chopping concrete snow from under a high-centred Mazda; also passable for parking lot deterrence/self-defense, I guess

- In winter: add a real snow shovel, plastic or aluminum but not too heavy; useful for clearing a 20' path through the occasional (but very dense) drifts that will otherwise bury a small car. In light, powdery Prairie snow, you don't exactly dig, but use a slow and steady sweeping motion to move the snow to the side, maybe 6" at a time, and switch left/right hands regularly to spread the load around (old farm trick to "rest" muscles while you keep working; same with switching sides in a canoe).

I have a square shovel (about 12"x12") that I really should carry, but I need to swap it to a longer and lighter handle. With a cutting bevel, it would handle most of the occasional spade work.

I have a Cold Steel shovel in each car too, but more for walking out than digging out. It sits in the "transfer kit" that goes from my/DW's car to the trunk of the inevitably unprepared friend/client in a second. Provided you are strong, flexible, and highly motivated, you could sweep away a lot of snow with one. Better than your hands by far. But absolutely no substitute for a genuine shovel.

(Sorry about the length, I seem to be writing a novel here. Sheesh!)

In the summer I only carry a metal folding shovel in my vehicles. In the winter, I add a collapsible snow shovel. Kind of like this (if the picture works right):



There have been a few times in winter where I was glad I had both. The plastic shovel is good at moving snow or road debris quickly and I don't worry when it comes to taking snow off the windshield with it. Whereas, the metal shovel has the capability to deal with stuff that's a bit harder like light ice and dirt.

Paul, I keep a shovel like that on my snowmobile, I have used it a lot when stuck in lake slush or powder snow.

Doug, how do you like the Cold Steel SF Shovel for year-round use (e.g. camping/ATVing)? I have been thinking about buying myself one for Christmas, but would have to order it unseen from a catalog store. Concerning the truck shovel likeness; Canadian Eh?

Mike

Hello new guy.

Speaking as a life long Vermonter, I carry TWO. One is the Cold Steel e-tool and the other is a full length, square tipped, 8" wide spade.

For years, I carried a normal, pointy tipped shovel that I cut down to e-tool length, and sometimes a grain scoop that I cut down to better fit in the car. Both worked. Sorta. Neither could get under the car well. The spade gets under the car well, and is a nice utility shovel. The e-tool takes a decent edge, so I could get the machete out of the car, and between the two of them I haven't found much they couldn't handle.

I'm fully on board w/folks who carry a handled, somewhat shortened, spade. Also, fiberglass is great. If I could design my dream shovel for car carry it'd had a stainless scoop and be a short spade with plastic D handle and fiberglass regular handle.

Anyways, all good advice. Everything considered, particularly the limited space in my girlfriend's car, I'm going to stick w/an E-tool for her. If she's home she'll have a snow shovel, etc, if she finds herself in a pinch and AAA isn't available or isn't available soon enough the e-tool will likely get her out. If the e-tool doesn't get her out, she can snuggly up in her sleeping bag and wait. We are in urban Connecticut after-all...

Thanks!

We've got a NATO-type folding shovel for each vehicle, along with an RAC card in each vehicle and each wallet.

It's unusual to get much snow here though.

Tag.

I bought two surplus Swiss e-tools a couple years back on-line. They are much like the Cold Steel shovel except they have a squared off blade. Compact but non-folding. One's in the truck, the other's a spare (good price and shipping was same for two).

Robert

The Cold Steel shovel is one of the finest pieces of equipment made by that company. You should definitely own one. As you probably know, the design was borrowed from the Russian Spetsnaz shovel.

the other Pete

For laughs, I just used one to clear a path to my outhouse. Rather urgently, since DW has some friends over and I didn't want to, uh, stifle the conversation. Had to sweep through a couple of knee-high drifts and chop through a brush pile to open the path. Not fast, and took a fair bit of bending, but it got the job done.

I quite enjoy mine (I have three). They are very sturdy, and have held up well to moderate use/abuse over the last two years. They take an edge easily and hold it well enough for the spruce/poplar/willow we have here, and don't seem to chip when abused. The price we pay for them up here is outrageous, though, so they are definitely an indulgence. But I find them lots of fun to muck around with, and I would be very happy to have one if I was stranded in the bush.

Truthfully, though, it's a "fill in the gap" tool. It will do a lot of things in a pinch, and it's compact enough that you won't leave it back in camp. But if you have a lot of cutting to do, you'll start wishing for a real axe. And if you have a lot of digging to do, or snow to move, you'll wish for a long handle and bigger surface area.

Caveats aside, if you have a niche for this type of tool, I think you'd enjoy it.

Thanks for the report Doug, I am going to buy a CS Shovel from somewhere, Christmas present to myself I think.

Mike

Thanks Doug! That is great news. Obviously any small multipurpose tool like this is a huge compromise. If I expect a better than normal chance of getting stuck someplace, I'm going to bring a heck a lot more then even just a real shovel. How about a high lift jack for starters! Anyways, sounds like this will be the perfect "just in case" device, and can be supplemented for longer trips or rougher circumstances.

Frankly, if we're doing any long wintery trips I'd rather not take my girlfriends car anyways.

We got some snow a few days ago. Decided to hack away at some of the harder stuff at the edge of the road with the cheap no name e-tool I've carried for years and never needed.

The results weren't so good.

I may be buying another cold steel, unless I can find something of equal size and quality at home depot, etc. Whatever I get, it has to fit in the storage area under the floor in the back of my wagon.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/qD7...feat=directlink

If digging is the main task (as opposed to cutting tasks) a basic square-tipped garden spade is an economical alternative. Probably set you back $10 from a big box store. Cut down the handle to fit your space. You can do a surprising amount with these. Put a 45 degree bevel on the business end -- it helps a lot with digging, whether in soil or compacted snow. I used one for some basement demolition last year; with a crudely sharpened bevel, it cuts drywall like butter. Not the first choice for powdery snow, though.

Got 'em, like 'em. (Edit:"'em" are the Cold Steal Shovels I ordered shortly before starting the thread!) They're sturdier than the e-tool I posted a photo of above. Very small. They come with an edge that'd work in a pinch. I didn't order sheaths for them, a mistake in hind site, but for now it has a cardboard sheath and is stored with my girlfriends spare tire and jumper cables. With any luck the next time it'll come out is when she sells the car!

I'll give my brother his (and then mount it for him in his Suburban) on Christmas. I think it might actually get used there.

Back to handles, I agree fiberglass is superior, that said, I see why this has such a simple handle. If you break it in the field you could use the head of the shovel to improvise a replacement! All you'd need is a screwdriver, which I'd have on my leatherman should the need ever arise. Actually, my girlfriend will have a screwdriver on her Leatherman Flair after Xmas day! Shh, don't tell her!

After reading the good reports in this thread about the Cold Steel SF Shovel, I ordered one today. Looking forward to trying it out.

Mike

Just found this photo of what I guess is a genuine Russian etool: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MPL-50.jpg

Couple comments, I like the flat screw heads. If you have to make a new handle it'd be easier to improvise a flat head than a philips. Perhaps I'll replace my screws. I also like that they're on top. This girls some orientation. I suppose I could memorize which side of the shovel my screws are on relative to the top but that's harder to remember than "screw on top" or "screws on bottom"

This is relevant for use in the dark. Why would I use my shovel in the dark? Great question. No idea, but it seems like a decent feature to have.

Also found this from the wiki: http://militera.lib.ru/research/suvorov6/01.html

Pretty...interesting?

I use the following shovel for my winter bushcraft excursions, or in the trunk of the car during the winter. It's made by a canadian company called Garant and is simply called "Telescopic Winter Shovel". Available at Canadian Tire stores (canadian retail store chain).



It weighs 537 grams (19 oz). Polycarbonate blade and telescopic aluminium handle. It sells for 15 $ CAD, I have no idea why someone would want to buy expensive mountaineering shovels such as the Voile models that sell for 50+ $...

I have quite a number of Garant products. Not a dud in the lot.

How does this shovel stand up to avalanche-churned snow? I'm thinking that's the worst case for mountaineers (or snowmobilers). Is it stiff enough to cut into that nasty near-concrete stuff?

Looks like a nice portable snow shovel. I'd pick one up if I saw it for $15 USD even.

Also, in my Cold Steel pursuit I read about a review by Fred Perrin. It was hosted on geocities which of course came down, but can be found at the internet archive, this link: http://web.archive.org/web/20050315132156/http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/2292/shovelrev.htm

Pretty entertaining. Also, note I had to highlight the whole page to view the text. It must have had a colored background that was lost in the backup.

Robert, +100 on the Cold Steel. IIRC, I bought mine in the mid 90's, give or take a year or two. Still going strong despite being used as a garden utensil, rock remover, pry bar, etc. Tough as nails, useful, and fit under the seat of my Ranger along with a hatchet (bought mine with no sheath as well and as it turns out haven't really needed it). Just be careful as that is carbon steel that will rust. Check on it every so often to make sure any moisture isn't turning your GFs emergency tool into swiss cheese.
Really like all the collapsible snow shovels and ones with take apart handles. Room permitting it makes sense to carry both the CS and a snow shovel. Snow shovel will move large amounts at a time and the CS will break apart the compacted stuff. Good luck Robert (and don't forget a CS shovel for your own stocking )

LOL, He sure seems to love his chopping flying digging shovel.

An Essay in Short Shovel Stupidity

I have avoided commenting on this thread for days for fear of offending the delicate feelings of supposed experts. But a phone call from my wife changed my mind. We live on the east side of Mount Hood in Oregon where mountain climbers keep dying to enter our water shed. She could not find the snow shovel which I had not retrieved from a locked shed before I left town. She decided to shovel 150 feet of sidewalk using her three foot long D handled emergency shovel from her car kit. This collapsible shovel had a heavy wooden handle that was friction fitted to a strong aluminum scoop blade. I modified it with a lockable D pin to insure that it would not loosen or come apart when in use. In my experience, most collapsible shovels do so during use. I have spent to much time on the dumb end of shovels.

The military designed their entrenching tools to be easy to pack and tough. But they also designed them to be very short for a specific reason. When soldiers are dodging bullets, the last thing they wanted was to be good targets, thus these entrenching tools were made to be used while on bellies or at worst on knees. While you say you are giving these short shovels to your loved ones for their benefit, you are actually giving them an instrument of self torture.

Picture your girl friend, sister, wife, daughter, mother, or grandmother on their hands and knees or more likely on their belly under their vehicle trying to free it from being high centered on snow with a short handled shovel. Cold wet slush is dripping off the vehicle down their neck while they are lying in muck trying to get rid of the spoon full of snow with their tiny shovel. They have to scoot back out from under the vehicle with each load because they are in the tunnel they dug to get to each scoop full. Not only is this uncomfortable and messy but dangerous especially if they have to get on the traffic side of the vehicle.

I made my wife’s shovel three foot long because she is shorter than me and I did not really think she would use it. How wrong I was! I size straight handled shovels to be at least as long as I am tall and D handled shovels chest high. You can work for hours without injuring your back if you know what your doing and you will be able to throw snow away from you. Powder snow and a short shovel is completely useless. I should have made my wife’s D handled shovel 3.5 feet or more long. She berated me not because she was tired but because she had to bend over to use the shovel resulting in a sore back. I have been instructed that when I get home to retrieve the normal snow shovel and lengthen her car kit shovel!

As an aside, AAA will not assist drivers on unpaved roads. We own property on Mount Adams across the Columbia River in Washington State where our ranchers association maintains the roads not the local government. We have been doing so for 50 years. Its snow a lot. It is not unusual to find people of all ages to be stuck in their vehicles. They either dig themselves out or wait to be rescued by fellow ranchers or our snow removal contractors. For many years, cell phones did not exist or was CB communications effective in this mountainous region. Everyone learned early on to effectively use shovels in snow and ice. No one and I repeat NO ONE gifts a short shovel unless one wants to receive same you know where! You can make a long collapsible shovel.

That is all. Carry on.

FWIW I will automatically bow to anyone who has to shovel snow more than a few days a year, in terms of what type of shovel is effective. I only shovel snow when I have to for shelter above the snowline (not often) or getting a car unstuck (not often), and I use an avalanche shovel that has proven to work well, and I can shovel comfortably with it for 1-2 hours. If I were clearing a driveway every day for 3 months I would hope for a snow blower or a longer handled shovel for Christmas. I finally took a look at the Cold Steel shovels spoken of in this thread and say - really? You use that thing to shovel on a regular basis? So I agree with turbo, short shovels are for the birds...

An excellent post Turbo.
I do own one of those cold steel shovels. soon after I got it I got rid of the short handle and replaced it with an ash staff tapered at one end for the socket to fit on.
Not riveting the shovel to the handle lets the two go separately.
The handle is my walking stick and the shovel head goes in the pack with other geotools when hiking and looking for rock samples.
A handle by itself is almost easy to stow, the head by itself is quite easy to stow.

I use the same strategy with other shovels and don't rivet the heads to the handles. If you insert the handle in the socket and bump the but end of the handle on something solid they tighten on very well.
When you want them apart you drive the shovel off the handle. I usually just slam the shovel backwards against something solid (like a rock) to get them apart.
I have never had the shovel heads come off the handles when I was using them.

The adze eyed picks are the same idea. They are meant to just jam tight on the handle with a smart bump against something hard and come back apart for stowing away. They are not meant to be riveted or wedged (unlike axes).

The shovel in the car is a normal round point shovel with a loose handle. The handle on it is about 6 inches shorter than normal so it fits in the trunk easy.
It might not be the greatest snow shovel but it will work on almost anything that can be shoveled.
I prefer the solid forged shovels to the stamped ones but that is just personal preference. Most people like the stamped metal shovels because they are lighter.

Yeah, we got sidetracked with CS Shovels for specific situations and collapsible shovels for self-propelled trips.

Looking back over the thread, though, the consensus about what works best in serious snow is pretty clear. Long handles and large heads are absolutely the first choice in that situation.

I just keep a regular GI shovel in my car (it's a 4x4). My GF keeps a full size in her trunk, with the handle cut to size to just squeeze in. I've used it once, and was glad it was her shovel and not mine! Though, admittedly, I probably could have driven out if it was my car.

I hear the "grain shovels" are the best for snow. But I do fine with the flat-ish ones.

Turbo, given a choice and no room restrictions I would of course prefer a full sized shovel (or tool of any sort). But I can't fit a full sized shovel under the seat of my Ranger. Of course I could throw one in the bed but here any tool that is not tied down gets stolen and ends up at a flea market. Besides, the CS is always there if needed. I am not recommending everyone rush out and buy one and forego other tools. By all means if you have the room bring along a bigger tool. For what it is though the CS is handy to have around. Oh, I forgot to mention no affiliations with CS (standard disclaimer). No offense taken as to each his own .
Scafool's comments have got me thinking though. I think a nearly full size handle would fit behind the seat and the shovel (or just the shovel head) would still fit under the seat. Hmmm ... who says you can't have your cake and eat it too .

D-handles are shorter than straight handles to start with and a D-handle for a spade is quite short by itself.

The socket on a Cold Steel does not fit a regular shovel handle because it is a bit smaller.
However it does fit a floral size shovel handle which are a little bit thinner and shorter than a regular handle.

I would likely buy the floral head instead of a CS shovel if I was just going to use it for getting a car unstuck.

Cost does matter to me and the CS shovels are a bit more expensive, but my CS shovel gets used rock hounding and gets a lot of abuse which the usual stamped steel shovels don't stand up to for long.
Regular shovels are much more comfortable to dig with if you have to move a lot of dirt or snow because the angle between the head and handle is better to work with.

Also you can usually find shovels missing handles "dirt" cheap.

turbo - no military experience but plenty of time in a hole shoveling, mostly for homes under construction. A full size shovel is the only way to go, if I have to use one at all I'd rather plow!

Believe me, I know the image of my girlfriend laying on the ground getting her car unstuck is pretty horrible and scary, and frankly unless it is some kind of emergency she'll never do it, but that's what this is for, that emergency situation. Like the folder I've had in my trunk, it is just slightly better than my hands. It has been in my trunk since 2002 and the first time I used it was for the photo I posted earlier in the thread. Anytime I expect I'm going to need a real shovel, I'll have one, and so will she.

And hopefully some bibs and a waterproof jacket too! The one time I had to change a tire on a highway I was in full dress, tie, etc, threw on a pair of sailing bibs and rubber boots I had in the trunk, changed the tire, and was totally clean after. Awesome

Thanks though, all good points!

R

You've just reminded me of something I used to carry and never do anymore - coveralls. Used to carry a 1 piece jumpsuit type, air force surplus mechanics cotton outfit. Worked great for crawling under stuff and not ruining your clothes. Much nicer than the heavy poly blends that I see in the stores.

Yeah, I don't always carry bibs, but very often. I've got them w/me now for sure! As for top, I usually have a jacket I'm not too worried about.

Everyone on here must be money rich kit junkies.

Whats wrong with a standard builders shovel? They are cheep, far stronger than any snow shovel and get the job done. More importantly they far more ergonomic and easier to use.

If you want evidence of this fact speak to any professionals that are involved in avalanche rescue.

Rich: No Kit junkie: Yes

The cost of my metal foldable "Nato" shovel (for hard snow/ice): ~$15.
The cost of my "ortovox" copy look-al-like compact shovel (for the not so compact snow): ~$15.

Remember, prices in my country are VERY inflated compared to the US, where it should be roughly $15 for both of them if found at similar places / bargains that I found here.



Too big and too heavy. Every day routines will be too cumbersome if I have to lug this thing around. With my setup, the shovels are ready at hand, but invisible and don't take up cargo or passenger space.



+1 on that, except on the "cheap" part: A decent builders shovel will cost much more than $30 where I live... If it doesn't it is junk and not worth buying (at least not for its intended purpose).



Avalanche snow is very compact and very hard. The next time someone has cleared any snow with heavy equipment, take a look at the snow pile they created. (Not the two week old stuff - but the pile created this morning). That's about how hard an avalanche will turn once it has had time to settle. To get through that you need something really stout.


If I ever think I need a shovel I will bring a good one. My car EDC setup is for whenever I don't think I need any shovel, which actually is most of the time. My car EDC tools are there at any time to get the job done - not as quickly and ergonomic as a proper shovel, but done nevertheless.

PureSurvival - I agree, standard spade is the best. If I'm jumping in a plow truck, its what I've got w/me, if I'm driving around in a snow storm in my Subaru it is what I've got w/me. Problem is to keep it in my Subaru all the time I have to keep a seat folded down, can't but as much stuff in the trunk area, etc. Given my choice in tools to get a car unstuck, that's it, well, that's or another vehichle to rip it out w/ Which is why I carry a stow strap...maybe I'll post my tow strap in a new thread!

Lol in the UK I think the most expensive builders shovel is a lot cheaper the the cheapest snow shovel.

Yeah I agree that space can be a problem but I don't see any reason why a builders spade cant be added just before any snow event or if travelling into a snow area.

You must have missed the part where I advocated a simple spade. I would have said long-handled (builders) shovel but they can be hard to fit neatly into a trunk or behind a seat.

I'm also cheap. I'm not impressed by name-brands or gimmicks and don't think that anyone 'gets what they pay for'. I've seen too much high-dollar gear fail and, even more commonly, reveal itself to be no better than gear sold at half the price. Often less.

The really good news is that even department store camping gear is far better now than it was ten years ago. I've seen backpacks selling for less than $100 that are functionally as good as stuff sold by major names for $300 and up. If your careful and selective you can get high quality, reliability and durability for short money.

Also while snow shovels designed for and typically sold to campers and skiers are indeed pricey the ones sold at hardware stores in snow country are not any more expensive, sometimes cheaper, than a 'builders shovel'.

Cheap snow shovels around here are probably about $20. They sell them in supermarkets.

I carry an army surplus shovel in my car, and it helped with something as routine as having a flat tire. After I pulled off on the shoulder, the combination of reduced clearance due to the flat tire, plus something about the curvature of the shoulder, did not leave enough room for the car jack to fit. I was able to dig out 6 or so inches of soil and get on with changing the tire. For things like that the tradeoff of smaller size vs. a more optimal long handle seems reasonable.

Snow is not as much of an issue in my part of NC USA but if it were I'd also carry a snow shovel. During winter I keep a bag of sand in the trunk to deal with what I see more of: ice and ice/snow mixtures. I started doing that after I was stuck in the parking lot at work. I went back to my cubicle and got my potted plants and dumped the soil under the wheels and that got me going. I forget whether I re-potted the plants

Steve

Ditto - or not a bag, just a 1 litre plastic container... You (usually) don't need much to get unstuck, just get enough traction to put the vehicle in motion and you should be OK (at least with good snow/ice tires). If not, then you probably should consider staying clear of the roads anyway...


I've been stuck on a gravel road that had just a few ice spots on it. Backed up to turn, got both drive wheels on ice - bummer! Stuck! On a flat gravel road almost totally clear of ice! Only way out was either a good push or risk going further downhill off the road to get the wheels onto gravel.

Sand is good. I used some of it commuting in the morning when I lived farther north. A bag is a good way of carrying it because the bag itself is useful. Hint: Don't use beach sand because the salt will eat your vehicle if you keep it inside. Course builders sand, with sharp grains about 1/16", is ideal.

Another good thing to keep handy is a piece of plywood to keep your jack from sinking in to snow or mud. One foot square is a handy size. A second larger piece of plywood, or a piece of heavy canvas or outdoor carpet, gives you something to kneel and lay down on and helps keep the tools and parts from sinking in the mud and crud.

I've seen plywood break under jacks. I'm looking for a nice, low cost piece of 2'x1', quarter inch plate.

I also keep a rolled up blue ground pad in the truck for kneeling and sitting and tool space, not to mention it is a 6'x2.5' blue rectangle- it will be seen at a distance, that is not a shape/color that occurs in nature. Unless your monolith is really, really cold.

Xmas AM...the city plowed the streets so we all had to move our cars to unplowed side roads the nite before where the only place to park was in the snow banks of freezing slush..this is the aftermath of an hours work with a long handled shovel,roof shingles and a bucket of sand..i was lucky,if this was a back road "up north" i would not have bulled out onto a semi plowed street, but more frozen snow with who knows how far to a county gravel road

Finally got to play w/one of the cold steel shovels I bought as a gift this past weekend. Worked great for chopping I ordered myself one. Parking in unfrozen (but soon to be frozen) snowbanks is the pits. Been there. Unpleasant.

Don't forget about floormats if you've got them - they work great as traction devices in a pinch.

Yup... plywood breaks! You are so right Ironraven. Get yourself to an RV store and pick up a jack pad. They usually sell them in packages of four but you can often find them one at a time too. They are designed to be used under the leveling jacks on those great big RVs. We've got an RV and the 2x2 plastic pads work great and will help prevent sinking into soft ground. They also have some other types of jack pads that have built in handles to place them where you want them. Go online and look up RV jack pads to get some more ideas (Camping World comes to mind).

I carry a German military folding shovel/pick combo year around in both vehicles. I got them for $20 at a farm and fleet store. I think an extra plastic snow shovel or metal grain scoop in winter is a good idea. You can also buy sturdy little plastic snow shovels with retractible handles at Kmart that are a good compromise in winter, but not so much in summer. A friend of mine slid off the road in his pickup during a recent snowstorm, and he had to dig out with his window scraper.

If there are any scaffolding companies around you check if they have any extra pieces of scaffold mudsill (jack pad). These are usually damaged laminated scaffold planks cut into 2 foot lengths.
They go under the scaffold legs to spread the load,
You will never push a jack through one and the jack is far less likely to slip than on steel.

Oh, neat, two ideas- thanks guys.

Robert,

I told ya not to forget one for yourself. Next time maybe you'll listen to the old man.

Thanks Mark

I'd already made my order when I started this thread!

W00, 6-12 inches here Wednesday. Should be interesting!

I also got this: http://www.amazon.com/Hopkins-Subzero-17211-Emergency-Shovel/dp/B000B8VYLA

8 bucks at a chain called "Ocean State Joblot".

A nice compliment to the Cold Steel, but both inferior to a real shovel if one is available.