Saturday I spent a fair anount of time lost. I was in an outdoor awareness class, blindfolded and trying to go basically uphill through the brush, trees, rocks, upslopes, and downslopes to reach the place where a 5-gallon "drum" was occasionally being beaten.

I could hear others moving nearby much of the time, and I trusted the instructors, so I knew I was not really alone. I never felt like anything too dire would happen to me, but I knew I was lost.

The sound of the drum seemed to move occasionally, which I knew was not really happening anywhere except in my head. But blindfolded, the drum was my only orientation and so I knew I was "lost."

I stopped several times to try to sort things out, thought I did, and repeatedly realized I failed when I got disoriented again. Try as I might, I could not home in on the drum.

Eventually a kind spirit of the forest took my hand, put it on her shoulder and led me to a road. There she put my hand on the shoulder of another guiding friend who led me up the road a short way to the drum.

I took off my blindfold to learn I was not the last one in, but close.

Thought provoking.

Been there, done that, different time and place.

Try doing it in a cave, without light or sound, and the flashlight you are carrying no longer works. No cave spirit on that trip. We did it at night, and you'd be amazed at how bright the night sky is when you've been in complete darkness for about 6 hours. Fortunately we used a cave that had only two directions, but a lot of breakdown clutter and a lot of corners.

being alone plays strange tricks on your mind.over at the wilderness canoeing site people who go out solo always post "i felt like i was not alone" messages or "felt like i was being watched" and of course others chime in with the "Ya,me too".
people in distress like stranded mountain climbers not only feel but see someone.maybe it's some sort of survival method wired in our brain from a few million years ago,i think it's stress hallucination and in less stressful one's just a overwhelming sense of self.

Tryin to live in the woods, I feel like that often it's funny but you get used to it L O L! When my dog is out you don't get the feeling though... I think it's hte human mind since we are social beings.

I spend a lot of time alone in the bush but in the daytime or when operating a vehicle I do not get the "not alone" feeling. I usually only feel it at night when in camp or on the trail. Nothing has ever come of it, I guess it is just a mental thing.

Mike

Todd..good thought about being social beings..same with me when one of the canoe dogs is along.maybe because i'm interacting with Rover i don't need to make someone up who then becomes a strange feeling of someone there--if that makes sense..i'll have to Google this as a Psych issue..

I don't think it's really making things up, more like that the brain is great at pattern matching, and at filling in the blanks when it doesn't get all of the information. The basis for optical illusions, even mp3 compression. So if there's no one around, but you're used to people being around, your brain figures out how to interpret random noise as a person.

It goes along with the feeling you get when you arrive at a place you know via a route you don't, and suddenly realize that you know where you are. A moment where your mental image of where you are quickly adjusts itself. A fun feeling.

Of course if you see little green space people, you might have a problem somewhere...

For another little test, blindfold yourself in the farthest part of the house from the front/back door, turn around a couple times and see how long it takes you to get there, crawling on your hands and knees.

I was a trifle embarrassed, myself.

Sue

That's what the USCG and Usn requires of every crewman within 24 hours of reporting onboard.

There is some truth to that. Climbers that get stranded have frequently reported being visited by friends, loved ones, even the yeti. Or feel comforted enough to sleep, because they feel "someone is watching over me". There have been quite a few of these reports, and I think that it could be the social creatures we are...I never really thought of that till now though!

now lets morf this over to what we are about here,how would this effect a/your survival situation? would it turn into fear or comfort?--and having read this or other information on the subject could you use this "feeling" like a tool without going nuts like the guy with the basket ball in the castaway movie?--and now that i think about it and the AM coffee is kicking in,is this why some folks take a stuffed toy animal mascot along on solo trips???..this is getting weird---it feels like someones in the house with me------oh..my wife--she has the day off....later guys..got to go----

I originally posted thinking there might be a discussion of how to deal mentally and emotionally when you know for sure you are disoriented and lost. Not what to do to get "un-lost" but how to powerfully and contructively deal with that sinking "uh-oh" feeling to enhance your chances of survival.

But the thread will go where it goes and has been pretty entertaining.

As long as Boney M doesn't pop into my head then I know I'll be alright. I would rather have this music pop into my head to get motivated.

Hey Y'all,
Disclaimer:(I am not trying to put my beliefs off on anyone who doesn't want them care about them or need them) But being a Christian, when in the bush I know I am not alone, I have a savior and friend who is always watching my back. God is always there watching me and I hope he is watching over all y'all too.

(Admin. please delete if inappropriate.)

Confirmed Pagan here. I have been in the woods for as long as 17 days alone, its a trip. I am a firm believer in the life in all things. And in particular, when I am alone in the woods I sometimes ponder or get the feeling that all my forefathers are there with me - all the relatives, dead and gone, long since dust, who once were but are no more. Are they in a heaven, Christian or otherwise? Who knows. All I know, is when I get in the frame of mind, they are there, with me. And I'll confess, I have from time to time heard their "voices" (thoughts) when I wasn't actually asking them anything, not under stress, not even listening, but more like being taken unawares. The feeling relates to my relatives, not to the infinite billions of non-relatives who have existed, which is what I would expect from some cosmic consciousness, regrettably I seem capable only of the relative kind. And sad to say, I have never heard the voice of God, any God, not even a whisper, or at least not so that I can understand it.

Nothing particularly stressful about being alone in the woods, except the futility of life if you find yourself stuck, but I think its being alone on my own that brings the connection to others on more strongly. Strong enough that I believe in this presence when I'm also at home, among my living family and friends. Maybe its just a comforting belief, to think that my forefathers who has gone before still exist somewhere, and I will also someday exist wherever they may be. My conscience tells me they are all watching me, always, and they may have something to say about what I do with my life when its all over. I have alot of questions for them, and I hope when I ask them they'll understand me. And if instead I meet darkness at death, that's fine, it was a comforting thought for a fair amount of my life to imagine something else. (And if I end up a caterpillar in another life, then hey, the Buddhists were right). also fyi, I don't believe in hell, not for anyone, though I will occasionally wish that someone should burn in hell for what they've done in life.

My cosmology, you're welcome to it...

It may depend on what the person fears.

I have friends who don't spend much time outdoors, and they got very nervous when they heard coyotes howling in the distance on a camping trip. The next morning, they said they didn't sleep well because they kept 'hearing things outside the tent' and thought it was coyotes.

Maybe some people would be more afraid of people... you know, the serial killers who stalk campers. ;-)

Me, I'm afraid of bears, garbage can bears in particular. Met 'em, couldn't scare them off, they give me the creeps. To me, sounds are bears. Look outside, it's a raccoon or a squirrel or the wind. But it sounds like a bear to me.

That's why I travel with a dog most of the time. I look at her, she twitches an ear and goes back to sleep, I'm okay. It's that very low growl when *I* don't hear anything that makes my hair stand up. That stalking walk and peering into the darkness...

The personification of our fears...

Sue

I have seen paranoid dogs too.
I think you guys are right about the fears reflecting the culture the people live in.

In the mythology there seems to be a common thread of warning, it does not seem to matter if they say those voices are fairies, leprechauns, mermaids, Rhiannon or the Windigo.
Almost every culture tells their people not to follow the voices they hear into the woods (or onto the rocks for sailors)

The fact that the stories are all similar says that it is a common thing and that indicates it is something normal brains do. Kind of an auditory instead of a visual mirage.

I find it very interesting that cultures where people often spent time with no sound of a human voice around regarded this as normal and developed myths to explain and warn about it.

That tells me it is something to beware of if you are ever in deep isolation.
I know with a visual mirage there is a difference in the quality of the image, and that you can usually tell a mirage from reality once you have seen them.
So how would you tell auditory mirage from real sounds?
I suspect you might have more difficulty locating it, and the sounds might be just a bit to perfect in tone. I am not sure but I really do suspect there would be some traits of the sounds that might help you decide.

Some studies have been done on prisoners in solitary confinement. They showed very strong signs of audio hallucinations, and mostly of the terrifying sort.

over at the canoe site--bwca.com-there are also some story's of very positive feelings as the result of being alone,that one with nature stuff that carries back home with you and leads to a more productive happy life..of course for what we are expecting here,lost,cold and hoping the rat stew will last another day i don't see that in the works.

dwest--to bring the thread around to that again--lots of people have said they would try and get in touch with whatever it is that they cherish most and use that as a anchor--home,family,religion,but i don't think there is a "package" that would suit everyone.but as this is a survival site we might want to think about that as part of putting together a kit..the knife go's here....what would i do if???...the matches go there...i'll count to 100 very slowly if i get lost..the whistle is a bit large...i could try and recall old friends to calm down..--a mental exercise so when you need it you have it..as we have seen the survival issue is much more complex that the right knife or spark lighter..

The "what would I do if" excercise is the point.

I know that I am rarely "lost" but have often had brief periods when my sense of "staying found" has been challenged until I can match what I see in the landscape with what I see on my map. Being ready to accept that "not sure where I am exactly but I know I will figure it out" feeling as part of the ordinary outdoor experience removes much of its potential anxiety.

In the "drum walk" excercise because I was blindfolded I was "lost" and forced to depend on hearing as my only way to navigate. I failed to successfully get to the drum in the time allotted, so I stayed "lost" until rescued and led, still blindfolded, to the drum. Fascinating experience.

Times like these I am reminded of the Duke in "3 Godfathers" when it's down to just him and the baby and he's struggling to keep going, and he can hear the voices of the dead friends he left behind goading him on.

I am also reminded of the scene from Eddie Murphy's "Holy Man", where he is coaching a man through an imagined plane crash. In the scene, he has the man focus on his family, how much he is loved, and how well he's done taking care of them, knowing they will be okay without him now.

Often we make a lot more out of a seemingly bad situation than it really is. I prefer to look at any given event in my life as an opportunity; a chance to experience another adventure. It's okay to be scared at times. Heck, that's half the fun and thrill of the big roller coaster rides. But we need to learn that what scares us doesn't need to overwelm our reasoning. Even the unkown can be faced with courage. After all, death brings us all to the great unknown in the end, so it is always a part of our existence. In this day and age, most of us get quite disconnected from that reality, which I think is what makes it so hard for us to cope with more trivial adversities.

Knowing that despite your best efforts you are gonna die someday is a pretty darned good slap in the face with the gauntlet of reality.

I can't be the only one here who really appreciates reading a little benjammin first thing in the am. Good stuff, dead on, well put, an inspiration, and thanks for writing it!

Going back to dweste's "Mysterious Guide", this is a common but unexplained occurance:
Study: The Third Man

-Blast

Well, it's awful nice to be appreciated, thanks. I like to think that with the thousands of posts I've put up here over the years, at least some morsels are worthy.

to quote one of my heros, "Just doing what I can with what I've got."

A healthy perspective seems to persistently be one of the most important things we have to rely on for our survival, in just about all the situations we might find ourselves in.

I have to restate what Lono said; Ben I appreciate your well thought out posts, they make me think and self examine.
It is what my hunting partner calls "the voice of reason".

A while ago your tag line was a quote from Martha Washington;
"I've learned from experience that the greater part of our happiness or misery depends on our dispositions and not on our circumstances".

I related to it so much that I printed and posted it on our bulletin board at our youth group, it helps explain different situations and personalities.

Thanks,

Mike

I was assisted first by one of the course mentors / instructors who got me from wherever I was in the forest to a road, and on the road I was "passed" to a friend who led me to the drum.

Some of you folks must have done the blindfolded-walk-to-the-drum thing, did you develop any strategy to keep on time and on course?

I am going to be doing another drum walk soon blindfolded but at night, in the rain, and downhill through a different area of mixed pine, oak, and madrone. Looking for coaching.

Thanks.

I have never done this particular exercise, but counting paces is a surprisingly accurate way of tracking distance. I can achieve less than 10% error over distances of a kilometer or more, which is way better than my estimates. Too bad you can't use a GPS since they are still more accurate.

Lay out 100 feet on level ground, walk it several times, and do the math to get your average pace (left foot to left foot).

There are actually formulae for accounting for steeply sloping ground. I believe you drop paces descending and add paces ascending, but I have never used them.

I have my pace count down and use it several times a week. I use a football field about once a year to confirm my walking pace count and my running pace count. Which by the way is 62 and 41 respectively.

I have an app on my iPhone for running that I have been using to do active confirmation on distance across parking lots, parks, etc.

Knowing your pace count is IMHO a necessity.

I have never done it. I don't quite understand it. I've spend some time in various darkrooms over the years, with and without a safelight, and the important thing with all of them was to have a clear floor and to know where everything was. If I were stuck somewhere where I had no light, I'd most likely just stay put.

Is this one of those exercises where you're put in an artificial state of weakness to learn to depend on others and improve your "teambuilding skills"? Have to say I've never understood the point of that either, except as a conditioning mechanism.

I would suggest a helmet of some sort, a walking staff, and one of those thermal game finders that makes a tone depending on the heat of the object you point it at.

I don't mean to be negative, I just truly don't understand the point.

As I understand it, the drum walk is one of many exercises to help you experience how, because we are vision-entic, we have foregotten to be aware of the sensory input of our hearing, touch, smell, etcetera. Be excluding vision with a blindfold, you experience navigation with your other senses and learn that your awareness of the feeling of slope, the sound and feel of what is underfoot, the echo-non echo / sound-deadening qualities of close objects, the smell of certain flora and fauna as you near them, and such are always being offered by your senses if you open your awareness to them.

Dim light navigation, stalking, moving quietly, back-tracking, and things I am sure I have not yet discovered can all be materially aided by wider use of more of the clues offered by our senses.

I continue as a student of these practices.

Ah, ok. I believe I get it, and that sounds interesting. I would still suggest some sort of helmet though, in case you trip on something or walk into a branch.

Yeah, I seriously considered full body armor!

Part of the idea is to learn a different way to walk that eliminates almost all potential for tripping, stepping on dry crackly branches or leaves, etcetera. In the group I am learning from it is called "fox walking." I hope to be taught this technique in a week or so.

Another part of the idea is to learn to sense objects as you approach them, but from what I can see everybody walks into branches from time to time. The blindfold offers some eye protection and your relatively slow speed limits most potential injury. I do wear a substantial hat with a brim and crown that also limit potential injury, but I get your point.