Anybody tested the eGear Laser and/or compared it to the Greatland. The eGear folks do nice work on their other stuff, but I would like some input before buying one. I know the green is better, but this one is small and should work well enough for a personal size kit. The green one is for a larger kit.

Thanks,

Jerry

Essential Gear distribute the Greatland Laser products.

Doug,

something I've always been curious about...

When you did the Greatland lasers testing, did you find the RED laser to be much more/less noticeable at a distance than a relatively bright (white) flashlight?

Assuming they're both pointed at the viewer, of course.

Now that I carry a PLB, one of my focuses is that ensure that I get found - using a mirror & bright colors by day, and using a light by night. I wonder if the extra weight of the laser is worth carrying it - in addition to a decent flashlight.

Ken

The laser is significantly more noticeable.

Great to know. My PLB and the red Greatland Rescue Laser are paired up together - one doesn't go without the other. I alway had this image of rescue coming at night after activating the PLB, and they simply can't find me - thus the laser.

The Greatland (eGear) laser is sure one tough-looking piece of gear. It looks industrial. I'd always hoped it was worth the extra bit of weight - not that its all that heavy (3.5 ounces - about the same as the fullsize Ritter RSK Mk1).

Wish I could have afforded the green laser, but maybe in the next life.

Ken

Wouldn´t be the red laser better? I am not sure if it´s some "rule" but I think red is universal distress color. So you should have better chances of not being ignored when you signal with the red laser as opposed to the green one.
However in the case of signaling after activating PLB it shoudn´t matter since the SAR personnel would be looking for any visual signal (red or green) from you while trying to pinpoint your location.
But without help of a PLB it could make a difference.
Correct me if I am wrong.

Green is center of the bell curve on human eye sensitivity.

But green doesn´t scream "emergency" as much as red.

A laser flashing in your eye out of a forest at night screams emergency (or annoying little XXXXX that is going to get his butt kicked :-)

Out of the forest maybe, but would you count on green color on the sea? I have read somewhere (don´t remember where) that if you are on the sea/water you should use only red color for distress signaling. Other colors could be considered non distress signals. Maybe someone from coast guard wrote it. But I don´t really know. Is here anyone who could confirm whether it´s true or not? Preferably some SAR/coast guard folks? Is it really better to pack red laser when on sea or wherever? I would be interested to know.

I would pick red. Green is a bit easier for your eyes to see, but red is way, way easier for night vision systems to see.

Plus, as others have mentioned, red is more of an alert/danger color than green. People associate green with go, good, etc., and red with warning/danger.

A red laser is going to be tougher and harder to break than a green laser.

All consumer green lasers today are "DPSS" types, meaning they contain magical and delicate frequency-doubling optical crystals (blue does too, and yellow lasers even moreso). There's also an IR filter that is absolutely necessary for safety.

Red and violet consumer lasers are diodes, like LED flashlights, and more rugged. There are collimation optics to break, but no frequency-double crystal or an IR filter to knock loose.

Another minor issue is that there is more than one "red" laser. 658nm is the one manufacturers like to use because it's cheaper, but there is also a 635nm diode laser that is a slightly lighter red. The important point is that the human eye is 3x as sensitive to 635nm as 658nm: a 635nm red is easier to see: not as easy as green, but a lot cheaper and more rugged.

Any SAR is going to instantly recognize that a laser beam is not a flashlight, whether it hits them directly or they see the beam sweep across terrain. I doubt the color matters to SAR as long as it can be seen.

Doug has a write-up somewhere on actual experiments on using these to attract searchers. As I recall it takes a little effort to use it right: anyone buying a rescue laser needs to read that article.

You might want to read Doug's hands-on test of the Greatland Rescue Lasers:

http://www.equipped.org/rescuelaser.htm

The red laser was visible by the naked eye to 20 miles and with night vision goggles to 28 miles.

The green laser was visible by the naked eye well beyond 30 miles, and it was visible with night vision goggles.

OK folks, lets all just take a step back and look at the facts.

First: You don't have to worry about the fragility of a Green Laser Flare. It is standard issue for U.S. military, especially with various SF contingents in the sandbox. This is not your typical laser pointer

Second: The green is MUCH more noticeable than red. No pilot, or anyone else for that matter, is going to ignore a green laser being flashed at them.

Third: Red is NOT a universal distress signal color. Most strobes, including those USCG approved, are white, for example. The key is something abnormal that stands out from the surroundings.

Fourth: The Green is much easier to aim.

Fifth: I carry a Green Laser Flare for personal use.

For more info read: http://www.equipped.org/rescuelaser.htm

Regarding using the Green Laser on water. In our tests (USN), flying at 3000 ft, we could see the reflection of the green laser off the water surface at 34 miles distance using night vison goggles.

Even though the personnel on the boat didn't actually manage to hit our plane until we were 15 miles away, we could see the streaks of light emanating from the boat every time the beam intersected the water surface. Once we learned to look for that, it was very distinct even when the laser never actually hit us.

The biggest problem we encounted was aiming the laser. Some sort of sight would help. The two finger method isn't that great to aim it. Our plan is to couple it with a sight and luminous dial compass to help keep track of what part of the sky has been scanned.

Regards,

Tom A.

Tom,
Did the red laser have the same reflection off the water?

I believe I have posted this before-

I have tested my personal Greatland Rescue (red) Laser with the Maryland State Police Helicopter and it worked well. Having played with the green version at a NASAR convention, it is clearly superior to the red version. I just need to save up for a while.

Pete

I have both a red and green laser flare. The ONLY benefit the red one has over the green is it's size (slightly smaller).

Others have made the case that the green is a more effective signaling device, but it is almost impossible to explain how much better the green laser is until you use it!

As for durability, I have had one that has ridden in either my wildland fire kit or SAR radio harness every shift for the past three years (plus deployments, SAR events and training) and it is still going strong. I would put it in par with Surefire for quality and durability.

OH and on a side note, the green laser flare is visible through night vision even with the blue/green filters some aviation units use. These blue/green filters will block out (or make next to impossible to notice) some green led lights, which is why some SAR groups/agencies recommend red led lights vs green. When we tested the laser flare in green with NVG setup with the filter it was just as noticeable with the filter as without.

We didn't try the red laser. The green laser had such better performance from others testing it, we didn't really waste time with the red one.

JFCOM testing showed the green laser to be visible during daytime (except high noon) out to 5 miles. The red laser is largely ineffective during the day. That was another reason not to look closer to the red laser.

Tom A.

What do folks think of using a signal laser in urban settings, such as to potentially signal firefighters from your room during a hotel fire?

I would be a little cautious with the red one in an urban/suburban environment. While it fans out the beam on a surface, when looking at it you will see a pinpoint of red light, one might think they are being targeted by a weapon’s laser sight.

Pete

If someone thought you were targeting them it sounds like you are either horsing around where/when you shouldn't be or ITEOTWAWKI

I hate to say it, but Pete is probably right. Recently we have seen an increase in firefighters being fired at as they arrived on scene of working fires.

The other issues is, if you are far enough up that you need a laser flare to signal firefighters on the ground... you are probably so high up in the building you will likely not be able to open a window and rescue from that height would be near impossible from the exterior. You best bet is to get to a stairwell and start heading down if the stairwell is clear.

Thanks for the corrected info...I'd based the red/green on the performance of my own ITT gen3 unit which is several years old, and how it sees green vs red. I shouldn't have assumed that modern gear is the same, or that the laser is the same as other green light. I wonder if maybe a little bit of the IR is making it through the blocking filter, and that's one reason it works so well? Just a guess here. I'll now have to test a friend's green laser with my ITT unit.

So allow me to ask a dumb question.

I think I understand the value of the laser. It certainly concentrates the light and does not "waste" energy in different directions. Also, if you shine it upwards, it marks your position very well i.e. an observer can readily trace the beam back to its source.

But is a laser better than a strobe light? What about the new generation of powerful flashlights that include a strobe option? I would think the strobe would also be highly visible to S&R personnel.

Pete

For my tastes (YMMV) I would prefer the green rescue laser. However at current cost a McMurdo Fast Find PLB is only slightly more expensive.

As I own neither piece of equipment, i would first look to the PLB over a laser device...unless said laser beam was created by the Allan Parsons Project in which case I would spent 100 million dollars.

If you are interested in more info than you can shake a stick at on lasers (pointer and other styles), look here:

Laser Forum

On second thought, absolutely do NOT look there. You might accidentally hurt yourself, or find inexpensive reliable products that could be used to help save your life in an emergency.