Help me out here everyone. I am a little stupified by the options available for hydration. I used to think all I needed was a good canteen. Now it seems there are more, possibly better, options out there. Hydration packs. Nalgene bottles. To add to the confusion I read that boy scouts recommends a nalgene bottle because of the wide mouth and compatibility with commercial water filter systems. Since my son is also in the boy scouts I want something he can use later on (he is only a wolf now). So my question is:

What do you use/recommend and why? Thanks in advance for your help.

I use both. It's a technique I learned while preparing for backpacking at Philmont Scout Ranch in NM.

I have several platypus hydration bags and Nalgene bottles. When backpacking I have a 3 liter hydration bag that opens on top for filling (newer models have carrying handles that I recommend). Camelback has an extra wide mouth for ease of filling. I also carry two 2 liter platypus bags in case I need to carry extra water for dry campsites. Most of the time they are empty. Empty they take up little room and weight. I would consider replacing them with a 2 liter bag with carrying handle.

Then I have a standard Nalgene bottle that I reserve for crew cooking water. It stashes in a side mesh pocket. The nalgene is good for hooking directly to many filtering systems. It's also good for cooking as it has markings on the side for measuring amounts, useful for preparing dehydrated food.

In the other side pocket I have a large Gatorade bottle. It's cheap and disposable. I use this and only this bottle for smellable liquids, such as powdered Gatordae. It's easy then to make sure it goes up in the bear bag. I also wrap several turns of duct tape on this bottle. It's an easy holding device for the tape that's always in reach in an emergency and it also goes up in the bear bag as Philmont considers it a smeallable item.

For weekend trips and summer camp I have a 1 liter platypus that I stick in my day pack. Every scout at summer camp should bring a day pack with a water contained and small first aid kit. They'll also use it for their merit badge materials and swim gear if they need to change without returning to the campsite.

One of the complaints with hydration packs and Scouts is that it's difficult to monitor their intake to make sure they're not dehydrated. High adventure aged boys can be taught to make sure they stay hydrated. PLus everyone in the crew should be on rthe look out for signs of dehydration.

For younger scouts, especially at summer camp, we automatically assume they'll be dehydrated. Most boys are not used to being out all day in the summer in the woods. They don't stop to think about drinking water. So we constantly remind them, especially at lunch and dinner meals.

I would suggest a Nalgene for your son and perhaps a hydration system for you to start off with. Then as your son learns more and does more in Scouting, get him his own hydration system. It can be used as a subtle reward for his participation and growth as a Scout.

The more camp outs you go on, the more gear you tend to collect as the campout become more serious affairs and not just car camping outings where Scouts lug the bedroom pillows into their tents. Our ouys that are 14/15 and older tend to view using minimalist backpacking gear as a badge of maturity demonstrating their level of experience.

BTW, our troop issues new scouts a Nalgene bottle with the troop insignia on it prior to their first campout.

Water bladders are convenient but not very rugged.

Friend of mine had his water bladder burst while climbing Grand Teton. He had a serious thirst when he got down to liquid water.

Nalgenes are hard to kill.

I really like SIGG water bottles, you can't cook in them but the ysure are durable and come in many different sizes and colors.

I've used a USGI canteen for years just because it was given me. It is very rugged and extremely thick and heavy. The one thing that I really like about it is that I have the SS cup/pot that fits on the bottom of it and that I can cook in.

For a lighter weight system I plan to go with a Nalgene and one of the SS cups that fits on the bottom of one like this:
http://www.campbound.com/stainless-steel-bottle-cup.aspx
The cup will be smaller but I am ok with that because of the drastic decrease in overall weight.
I will probably also get a hydration bag to carry extra water on longer hikes. The main benefit that I see with them is that they are so compact when empty.

My current hydration system consists the following.

Water Bottle - Tantonka Stainless Steel Water bottle - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tatonka-Stainless-Steel-Bottle-1000/dp/B000G4XI3G

Drinking tube - Smartube - http://www.bluedesert.co.il/smart_tube.html

Water Bottle insulation - Sigg Neoprene water bottle cover - http://www.amazon.com/Sigg-Neoprene-Water-Bottle-1-0-Liters/dp/B000RI6BTO/ref=pd_sim_sg_1_img

Water purification system - Steripen Classic - http://www.steripen.com/steripen_products.html#classic

This setup may require a pre filter depending on the type of country you are in. i.e. some ceramic or glass fibre filter with activated carbon or even just a millbank bag although the water I will usually come across is generally clear from fresh running mountain streams. Generally this setup gives me good flexibility and is quite lightweight and fast to ensure that the water is ok to drink.

I like Nalgene .. it's light, tough, and the water still tastes good after it's been in the bottle a long time.

Most water bags have a tendency to break - unless you can stow them somewhere that protects them from impact.

Metal water bottles migh be OK - but they're too heavy for me if I'm carrying a backpack.

In an pinch - always remember that your basic large-size plastic soda bottle will hold a LOT of water. The plastic they use to make those bottles is incredibly tough and tear-resistant. Of course, if possible wash it out first - so you can remove the after-taste of the soda. And I don't like the narrow neck of those soda bottles. But Hey, let's not be picky if we're talkin' a real emergency here ... then those bottles are tough, hold a lot of water, and get the job done.

Pete

I find hydration systems rather fiddley and intricate. It is way to easy for them to leak, drip, and otherwise fail. I have lots of Nalgenes, platypus containers (platypi?), and recycled gatorade/soda bottles. I prefer the wider mouths of the Gatorade varieties. I really like the way a platypus will flatten out when empty and save space.

The most important characteristic of any "hydration system" is capacity - make sure you can carry enough water for conditions. I routinely ran through more than a gallon a day in desert conditions and still produced rather dark urine. Cooler, more humid situations decrease the need for water considerably.

I much prefer boiling as a water purification technique - positive and simple. I occasionally use a Katadyn Hiker filter and it is usually worthwhile to carry Aquapure tablets as a backup.

Some of your foods are canteens in disguise. I believe an apple is something like 85% water.

Finally, don't obsess over impure water. I have partaken of some pretty nasty sources - most memorably, drinking from a high mountain pothole and spying coyote poop in the water two feet away. There were no after effects. Nothing in the water is going to do as much harm as dehydration. If you can get back to town, the blessings of medical science can cure your malady, but you must win your way to civilization first.

I can't stand the water bags. Too hard to monitor intake, freeze up on you in cold weather, prone to breaking, can't be screwed into a filter.

Not super big fan of Nalgene either, to be honest. Usually though, I have 2 in my pack. Yup, they work with many filters, but you can always just hold the filter and squirt the water in.

I also have a USGI on my pack's hip band. This way I can monitor how much I'm drinking, it's right at hand, I like the size/shape, and I can refill from the Nalgenes. Admittedly, a bit difficult cuz of the small mouth.

But the 2+1 bottle combo has worked for 20 years for me. The camelback bags sit in the bottom of my closet... though I like some of their bags (not their prices though)

Maybe be ready to be flexible on this - I've noticed that Scouts will all adopt the hydration bladder if they have one, and sip from the tube all day on the trail. And why not - a hydrated Scout is a happy Scout.

For the Nalgene bottles, there's also a 1 liter soft-sided variant put out by Nalgene and by Platypus that I mostly like - except they tend to slide out of the pack pockets unless you strap them down. Also in this line are larger 3-4 liter soft-sided nalgenes that are great to have when you get to a campsite and want to filter a bunch of water. With the soft-sided bottles you get best of both worlds, clear sided container that weigh less empty. I don't put much stock in the water filter compatibility - not very hard to get water in a nalgene bottle, or soft-sided bottle, or a hydration bladder.

That's what I use - in fact, recyclable drink containers are about ALL I use. I also have a 15 liter collapsible water bag and a 5 liter plastic can for those big outings and campings. One of the biggest brands of bottled water has quite sturdy recyclable bottles with a drinking cap - that is my favorite water bottle. Soda bottles are much stronger because they have to withstand the high pressure, but I don't drink soda (ever! Don't like it!) and I don't like that I have to unscrew the cork whenever I have a drink. Whenever the bottle is funky I buy a new one.


But I'm lucky to live in a place where water treatment is no fuss, really. The tap water is first class most places, just fill your bottle. Outside of urban areas you just find a nice stream, consider if there's any obvious manmade source of nastiness upstream and if not, drink it. Obviously, a lot of places where that strategy is not recommended.


The platylus kind of system is tempting because drink is always instant available without effort - you don't need the self discipline of retrieving your water bottle. Too high tech for me... I'd rather go low tech, low maintenance and getting into the habit of drinking often, no matter the inconvenience.

Was a Camelbak fan for years, still am of their packs but not so much for their reservoirs. Busted one up and went with Platypus instead; zip top, carry handle, lighter. However I have found recently that even sipping every ten minutes I still do not get enough water in me for my requirements and get dehydrated long term in the day.

I now use Nalgene bottles when ever I can, I can easily monitor how much I take in. Two on me plus a 2 liter platypus platy-bottle in my pack. With 2x 30 oz Nalgenes and 1x 30-60 oz platy-bottle I carry as much as 100 oz hydration reservoir but drink better.

I was out at Philmont this summer...

I carried:
1 L Nalgene
2 L Platypus bladder
3 L Platypus bladder
and a pump filter.

Neither of my platypus have the zip opening -- just the screw on fitting for the hose.

I found that I could remove the bite valve and plug the hose into the filter to fill the bladders.

The upcoming days water outlook determined which vessels I filled.

Good stuff. Thanks for the input so far. Perhaps a little more info to muddy the water (yes, pun intended, sorry). The reasons I lean toward the GI canteen are:
1) Convenient size for day hikes
2) The carry pouch has extra pockets for water purification tablets and other accessories.
3) The canteen cup nests in the bottom with no additional space requirements.
4) A canteen cup stove can be added as well; it also nests so no additional space requirements.

The reasons I lean toward Nalgene (or possibly other bottles):
1) About the same capacity as the canteen.
2) A carry pouch with extra accessory pockets is available
3) A metal cup is available that nests in the bottom
4) Measurement markings on the bottle (mostly for cooking reasons, but also to monitor hydration if needed)
5) Compatibility with filtering systems
6) Compatibility with scouting

The reasons I lean toward a hydration bladder:
1) Constant hydration via drinking tube and bite valve
2) Carry in a pack on your back
3) Good or better capacity

My concerns with the canteen:
1) Small neck and can't see the nasties inside (if there was any funky stuff growing in there I may not know it)
2) Incompatibility with filtering systems (although I believe several of you have mentioned this is not something I should be worried about)
3) Incompatibility with scouting
4) No measurement marks

My concerns with the nalgene:
1) No nesting stove (although I'm fairly certain a small stove wouldn't be too much trouble to take along)

My concerns with the hydration bladder:
1) Difficulties cleaning
2) Difficulties removing water for cooking or other uses
3) No measurement markings
4) No cup or stove unless I pack it along
5) Compatibility with other backpacks
6) Filtering compatibility
7) Scouting compatibility

For the record I already have two GI canteens and a bladder with its own pack (no other room except for the bladder but does have molle attachments). I bought it on e-bay for a song and dance but I am not really sure how compatible it is with other back packs as I mentioned above. Do I remove the bladder itself and place it in another backpack or leave it in it's current pack and attach it to my main pack or wear my main pack over top of the water bladder pack(I really don't think so on the last as this seems really uncomfortable)? I am more familiar and comfortable with canteens or bottles than the hydration bladders but perhaps with time I could learn. I just don't want to invest any more money without some input. Based on this comparison the nalgene appears to be a better choice but I am still interested in what everyone else has to say. Also I know there are other threads on the subject but as I suspected there seems to be some new products and new opinions. It may seem a mundane topic but no one will question the importance of hydration. Based on my observations here and the original premise of the thread does anyone have any other insights? I appreciate everyone who has taken/is taking the time to contribute.

..."My concerns with the nalgene:
1) No nesting stove (although I'm fairly certain a small stove wouldn't be too much trouble to take along)"
----------------------------------------------------

Actually, it now turns out that you can buy stainless steel cups that fit over the end of a nalgene bottle. I just discovered this myself during another thread on this forum. It's quite a smart little idea for survival gear. So yuor cup and bottle nest together.

Then in a real survival situation you use the SS cup for everything. Put it over a small fire and use it to heat soup or tea. Use some aluminum foil to seal the top to retain heat and water vapor.

I haven't bought one of these SS cups yet ... but I certainly plan to!

Pete

The Vargo Ti-lite Mug also fits quite snuggly over a Naglene Bottle and come with a lid as well.

I already knew about the nesting cup but there is not a stove that nests with it as well like with the GI canteen. I tend to think this would not be a real issue for the reasons you mention and also a backpack stove would not take up that much room in the kit or pack. But you gotta admit the nesting stove for the GI canteen is pretty ingenious. And there would be some benefit to having that stove on your person instead of in your pack. Anyone know of a way to make a functioning nesting stove for the Nalgene cup?

The Tatonka Stainless Steel Water bottles are remarkably lighweight for a Stainless Steel bottle (@ 230 grams) being only 85 grams heavier than the equivalent Sigg Alu 1 litre Bottle. Problem with plastic and the lined Aluminum Siggs etc is that when all else fails the Stainless steel bottle can be heated over an open fire to boil water and provide warming drinks. The quality of the Tatonka Water bottle is excellent also.

Huh??? also the same setup I use. Great minds think alike!?!

For those who think that it is inconvenient to fill a bladder - I use the Platypus quick disconnect so it allows me to connect my water filter (Pur Hiker) directly to the hose of the Platypus and just pump til it's full. It's is almost as convenient as dipping the entire Platy into the a cold stream!

So an almost full 3 litre bag and a 950 ml Gatorade bottle of powered Gatorade/Powerade is roughly 8.5 lbs. I would not normally use that much water except in hot dry conditions for a full day. It also depends on how far apart the water sources are located. Why carry that much water if know the next source is only 4 hours hike away?

Finally, TANK UP! Hydrate first! Before you start out in the morning, fill that water bladder you are carrying anyway - your Stomach!

I'll often have a 3L camelbak bladder in one pack or the other and another 1-2 Nalgenes on hand. I find I drink more often from the Camelbak

The popular call before putting on our packs at Philmont was "Camel up!" Same idea but it captures the young men's imagination better.

Regarding dipping the bag: my son and I both experienced a intestinal ailment because of poor technique when doing this. Our bladders have a big ziplock type opening at the top for easy filling. We scooped up water in a river and used polar pure in the bladder. A few days later we both came down with the intestinal ailment. I figure we must have come into contact with contaminated water somehow. My best guess is that we didn't leak the treated water properly at the threads where the hose and bite valve connect. I think I should have waited a while longer for the PolarPur to distribute through the entire bag. But were were in a hurry to make the next camp, which is why we used the PolerPur instead of taking the time to use the filter.

I won't make that mistake again. My son was fortunate/unfortunate that he came down with altitude sickness and was transported back down to base camp when the ailment hit him. I was on the trail on a steep, rock up hill climb when it hit me. I was miserable to say the least. I also twisted my anklenear the end the day's hike. Not totally related but I suspect that the distraction and general weakness from being sick made me more vulnerable to injury.

BTW, for those familiar with Philmont, I was hiking up to Sawmill from Ute Gulch. Tough trail to be sick on. Not a lot of "red roof inns" or "pilot/bombadier" opportunities. And it wasn't easy to locate a safe, suitable rock-free site away from the stream to dig cat holes. The best part was the hotest shower on the trail as the tobassco boiler had been stoked all day long. And thank goodness for Gatorade!

Like I said, I won't make that mistake again.



The Nalgene was for crew meals so that is always filled as it's part of youer responsibility to the crew. And the Gatorade bottle is always filled since I like having Gatorade or similar mix on a hike. But what most folks seem to forget is that just because it's a 3-liter bladder doesn't mean you need to fill it all the way up if your next water source is nearby.

Likewise, different folks consume different amounts of water. My son was draining his bladder while mine was still half full. And my urine was "clear and copious" so I know I was propely hydrated.



Agreed!!!

My personal experience with CamelBak® Disclaimer* has been nothing but a joy, I've owned the light weight bladder only style and just recently got a Motherlode.

A good canteen is great, Nalgene® bottles are great, it really depends on how he likes to carry his water and how he plans to get more water.

It really depends a lot on what you plan on doing with your son.







(*not affiliated with, I've got no stake other than owning and using for 8+ years)

Several people have talked about the nesting cup for a Nalgene, but still not having the flexibility of the nesting stove stand like a military canteen set up. I came across this thread some time ago and made one out of a coffee can. Makes a great stove stand and windscreen. Easily accomodates a Trangia stove or bring along some Esbit tabs. I keep the entire set up in an Outdoor Research bottle holder for a compact, go anywhere package.
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=239693

I agree with Nalgene use for filter attachment and ease of use with a SteriPen. Camelback's nalgene knockoff is okay as well, although I broke of the bite valve thumbrests within hours of purchase and there are more "parts" to keep clean.

I have several different bladders, worn out more than my share,
I like the Cabela bladder's bite valve the best, lots of flow. And the material it is made of tends to keep a better taste longer.

I bought stainless steel bottles and just recently started using them, they tend to make a lot more sloshy noise than I like. But they are light and "un-crushable" in a sense.

So I usually have a big bladder (pun intended here as well)and a couple of nalgenes/camelback bottles, and one or two other bottles, either commercial PET (standard bottled water) or the stainless.

I'm in the desert, so depending on native water availability (many of the trails we use have springs marked)I may carry half of these empty knowing the spring is up trail.

There are a lot of good options out there now a days, just make sure you get a good stainless steel wide mouth bottle or canteen that will hook up to water filters or a steripen/miox and the same goes with a heavy duty bladder. The wide mouth supports filters and purifiers plus makes cleaning easier. Here's my set up as well, like I said there are a lot of good products out there and a lot of our it boils down to preference that's all.


I use a Guyot designs stainless steel 32 oz bottle with a ss cup for soup that fits in with the bottle plus I also have a MSR dromedary bag for large storage.

The MSR dromedary bag I have used for quite awhile has been very durable and I have not had any failure on them, they compact very well, light weight, tough as nails, can fit on to water filters, use as a shower bag and purify large amounts of water.

The Guyot designs 32 oz bottle is a little heaver but durable, boil water in it, hooks up to water filters, use a steripen water purifier in it or 1 tablet of a water purification tablet.




http://www.guyotdesigns.com/Product-Bottles

http://cascadedesigns.com/MSR/Water-Trea...ry-Bags/product

Since your son is still young, he has plenty of time to figure it out on his own. Hydration systems are kind of a personal thing, some people might like camelbaks, some like nalgene, that's why there are so many different types on the market.

When I was in scouts, we used metal canteens, and there weren't many other options at the time, so we just didn't know what we were missing. But as you mentioned, the drawbacks were the small opening so you couldn't add any powdered drink mixes to it (you'd never be able to clean it out afterwards). After a while, the wide mouth bottles came out (not nalgenes), then the nalgenes and camelbaks were coming onto the market. I've tried a few of different hydration systems like nalgenes and camelbaks, but currently I'm back to using the bottled water or large gatorade bottles. Durable, light, and best of all, free. Now my nalgenes and hydration bladders just sit around collecting dust.

I'm not a fan of the nalgenes because they're really heavy for their size, and for me I don't need a bulletproof waterbottle that can double as car chocks. You pay for all that durability in the form of extra weight. I'd rather sacrifice a little bit of strength to save on weight. I like the fact that some water filters screw directly onto them, but now they have adapters for regular water bottles as well, so that alone isn't enough of a selling point.

I never cared for hydration bladders because the tube is either in the way (when carrying a camera or other stuff), the mouthpiece always gets dirty when I set my bag down, and I like to know exactly how much water I have left when hiking. Plus cleaning and drying them is a bit more a pain. It's not difficult, just needs a little bit more care than rinsing out a water bottle. Also, I just don't like drinking from the mouthpiece, I don't know why, but even if there weren't any problems with them, I still wouldn't use them. They are nice for biking or other activities when you don't have your hands free, but other than that I still prefer bottles. Like I said, it's all personal preference, most everyone else I know loves them.

Sometimes ignorance really is bliss. When you're young, it doesn't really matter what you're using as long as it works. I know I never thought twice about the insulation in my clothes, the type of steel my knife was made from, what type of container was holding my water, or how many lumens my flashlight had. If only I could go back and not care, I would have saved a whole lot of money.

I like CamelBak's if I am being highly mobile or working heavy while in hot weather.They can be a life saver when in conditions hard to stay hydrated.When they first came out we had to fight the system to use them in the military.Now they seem to be standard issue.
In the winter they can be worn under the coat to keep them from freezing.That is the smaller ones(70oz.) without pockets so they add bulk under a coat.
The problem with hydration packs is you can't cook or "brew up" in one.I feel an ideal set up would be a day pack size hydration system with a stainless water bottle and cup.
I have a military version CamelBak HAWG and also a Guyot 38oz. bottle.Since I have left the service the CamelBak hardly gets used.The Guyot bottle is used daily.YMMV

BOATMAN
John