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#188242 - 11/13/09 08:21 PM Re: spin off: non-lethal options for home defense [Re: Arney]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Arney
In my own situation with a home intruder, the young guy was mentally ill, although it wasn't obvious at the time.

It sounds like you did not have your doors locked. That simple step would have been better than pepper spray, a taser, or a firearm.

In my case, if I found someone inside my house, that means they would have kicked down a locked door or broken through a window, and then fought off 250 lbs of dogs (I have three, two that are very very big). Those are my "less lethal" layers of defense. I highly doubt that an intruder could successfully claim "I accidently entered the wrong house unknowingly". Just by being inside my home, and intruder has already breached several layers of less lethal defense. That doesn't mean I'd start shooting at him, but I would not be trying to hold him at bay with a can of pepper spray either. He would be held at bay with something "more decisive". His next move, and the results, would be his decision.

I can imagine how people who don't lock their doors or set up layers of security could find themselves in a tight spot with an intruder though. I also see that some people may decide to set up only less lethal defenses and leave it at that. While I personally may not agree with the choice to lay down and die as a last resort, that's not my choice to make for others. I have several layers of less lethal defenses against intruders. In my case these are all passive, requiring no action from me other than setting them up initially. Once I am forced by an intruder from passive to active defense, I want all chances for winning the confrontation in MY hands, not HIS.

I feel strongly about being responsible for your own safety, but my intent is not to demean others with different opinions. I apologize in advance if that's the way my comments have come off.

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#188243 - 11/13/09 09:15 PM Re: spin off: non-lethal options for home defense [Re: haertig]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: haertig
It sounds like you did not have your doors locked. That simple step would have been better than pepper spray, a taser, or a firearm.

It's not clear where this guy came inside since everything was locked by the time the police arrived and we checked them together, but it's not like I routinely just go to bed with windows open and doors unlocked. But yes, it's logical to assume that something in my one-level house wasn't properly secured that night and by an incredible stroke of bad luck, he just happened to pick MY house that night. I have since gotten a security system that will sound an alarm if any door or window is opened.

However the same thing could've happened in the middle of the day. How often do we have a window open to get some air? Or leave a door open from the garage while we're mowing the grass? (Actually, now I routinely lock the door when I may be occupied with yard work, which still seems rather paranoid to me.) Or the door is unlocked while your child is playing the backyard or in front of the house? And do we all have bump-proof locks on all the doors? Or maybe this guy could've approached me in my garage while the garage door is up?

As I mentioned earlier, life has a inconvenient way of not playing out exactly like we imagine in our minds.

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#188248 - 11/13/09 10:30 PM Re: spin off: non-lethal options for home defense [Re: JohnN]
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
( get the stream. It works)

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#188250 - 11/13/09 10:37 PM Re: spin off: non-lethal options for home defense [Re: Arney]
JohnN Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: Arney

And you don't have to wait for gunshots. Maybe set up some emergency keyword. Regardless of where they are in the house, if you say it, they immediately try to exit and run to the neighbor's house or whatever plan you already have set up.


In fact, this is probably a better approach on a number of levels, although I'd suggest it be a phrase, rather than word.

One of the good things is you can practice it.

It doesn't get activated by accident -- activated only at the direction of family members.

Also, you might want to activate it for a couple of big guys with bats or knives -- no guns.

The other good thing, esp. as they get older, you could have more than one phrase -- with different instructions/meanings.

One could simply be "hide behind the hot water heater", the other could be "run to Mr. Smith's house and tell him to call the police" for example.

Oh, and you might want one "it is safe now" (aka drill over).

-john


Edited by JohnN (11/13/09 10:40 PM)

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