Decisive wasn't my term so that's why I was asking.

I have a large axe. Deployed well, it could be decisive. But I don't want to get that close.

"Decisive" means something that you can win with (nothing is absolutely guarranteed of course). Many times "decisive" will indeed be a firearm.

If you are at your bedroom doorway and your assailant is down the hall pointing HIS gun at you, "decisive" means you better have a gun too, and know how to use it. Pepper spray or a taser or a bright flashlight or a baseball bat is just not going to cut it under those circumstances.

In a different scenario "decisive" may mean something else. If the assailant is in your home, and you and your family are all locked away safe and secure in your panic room, then "decisive" might mean a phone that works when your power and phone lines have been cut (a cellphone perhaps). Call the police and let them deal with the assailant.

If you are blind, then "decisive" might mean a couple of well trained guard dogs.

But for my living situation and my family and my homes location, yes, "decisive" means firearm.

For you, in Washington, DC with the anti-firearm laws, you have to decide if your life is more important than obeying their gun laws. Sure you might end up in jail, but at least you're alive when that happens. Or you might go the guard dog route (I'm talking professionally trained guard dogs, not just buying a German Shepard and expecting it to be your savior).

Much better to keep the bad guys out of your house in the first place, but once they get inside, I want something that is as close to a "sure win" as I can get. "Might win if you're really lucky" is not good enough for me.

Another little "running away" tidbit. Sometimes people forget that while they may be able bodied and able to run away, you lose this advantage if you have a child with you.

Just a thought.

Other random things.

The effectiveness of OC spray varies highly from person to person. Some will be incapacitated, some will not be effected.

It should be noted there are different styles of OC spray patterns -- "cone", "foam" and "stream" being most common. The "cone" is sort of the middle ground -- it is easier to hit someone with it, but on the other hand they must be closer. The "stream" allows you to reach out farther, but you must be more accurate to hit someone. The "foam" is meant to be used indoors to prevent getting into the ventilation systems and contaminating everyone in the building.

You likely will get yourself when using OC spray potentially due to wind or the person coming in contact with you.

Some manufacturers (like Fox Labs) sell inert training cans.

Having a lot of video cameras up in your neighborhood probably will act as a deterrent. It might also be one of the few ways to increase probability of criminals being caught since you can determine what cars and people were in and out of the area around the time of the crime.

-john

big bear trap.

http://www.bugspray.com/professional/bear.html

:-D

-john

After re-reading I think I get your point now (which was also the purpose of this thread). What I had hoped for was a discussion of options other than guns that would allow a decisive defense without killing the attacker/invader, avoid accidentally killing a family member (I would be very interested on statistics along this line if anyone has any - I would much rather have a family member incapacitated for 30 minutes from a blast of pepper spray as opposed to lying dead on the floor), and lessen or eliminate any legal ramifications after the fact. At least a part of my goal has been achieved I think. Everyone has made some great points so far. It is very appreciated (and yes I am taking notes).
Being non-lethal (as opposed to less lethal as the point is to avoid killing) you obviously still have an annoyed bad guy to deal with, as others have already pointed out. Thus the non-lethal option probably needs to be coupled with an "exit and escape" strategy or something similar as Arney pointed out on page 1. On the other hand, if you would keep the bad guy in your sights when using a gun wouldn't you also keep your pepper spray or whatever aimed at the bad guy as well? If you are aware of a time frame for the effectiveness and no help has arrived why not just give the attacker/invader another blast? Food for thought; let the discussion continue.

P.S. For the record I do think pepper spray or similar is the next best option for a decisive outcome. Any opinions on which is best? Will a canister from Wally World do or is there a better alternative? Also more thoughts on any legal ramifications, even those specific to your area. If I am beating the dead horse, so to speak, let me know.

I think the instinct of any woman -- certainly this one -- will be to get as far away from the intruder as possible, as quickly as possible.

Were I fortunate to disable them for any period of time, no way I'd stay inside, near the perp and isolated from rescuers.

Staying near the perp would just give him the opportunity to harm me or take me hostage.

A thought just occurred to me (brain hurts, steam pouring out of ears). Assuming the child is old enough, should you have an emergency plan that includes them climbing out the window and running to the neighbors house if they hear gunshots inside the house? This is of course assuming you were unable to get to them before confronting the home invader.

This is an idea that I have mulled over for many years. First, let me just say that I live in a pretty safe area. The worst situations I generally ever hear about in homes are burglaries (whether planned or just "crimes of opportunity"), some sort of sexual assault (the female saying that she woke up to someone fondling their toes is more common than outright rape), and maybe vandalism. Of course, not to say that we're immune to more violent crime. But I don't live somewhere with a lot of gang activity, violence, open drug dealing, and lot's of drug addicts or ex-cons. So, masked gang bangers with AK-47's storming into my house is not particularly likely. Unfortunately, for some of us, it might be, but that's not my situation.

To me "decisive" brings up images of something that is going to stop someone from doing what they're doing--right now. Short of a firearm, I would personally only put a Taser in that same category. Like any firearm, a Taser will only work if you successfully hit the target, but if you do, it seem highly successful in stopping someone instantly.

Pepper spray can certainly incapacitate someone strong or even high on drugs, but it's going to take a bit of time to stop them once they're hit. In the meantime, they can still get in a knife stab or fire a shot.

But, to continue, one huge responsibility with a firearm is making sure that you are using it in an appropriate situation. We probably have lot's of scenarios in our brains (the majority probably from TV and movies) but real world situations tend not to follow Hollywood scripts. A big advantage with less-lethal weapons is that you have a far wider latitude in using them, with less chance of permanent physical harm and legal troubles for yourself.

In my own situation with a home intruder, the young guy was mentally ill, although it wasn't obvious at the time. He did at one point pick up a kitchen knife but not in a menacing way. Was I afraid during all this? You betcha! Was I in fear for my life? Well...I have struggled with that because I don't think I could articulate such a fear. If I had shot and perhaps killed this guy, I honestly don't know if I would have avoided prison, let alone getting my pants sued off me.

At least with something like pepper spray or a Taser, you can hit the guy when you first encounter them, escape, call the cops, and then let them sort things out. If all I had was a firearm, the burden of decision-making is far higher (of course, in some jurisdictions, just being in your house could be a safe defense--legally or just practically--for you regardless of the other details). But it's a very heavy burden and very few of us have any experience or training to do that. I mean, it's easy when you first see someone and they have that gun raised or knife raised, but what if you don't see a weapon? What if the guy smiles and starts telling you some story about mistakenly being in the wrong house? The guy could have bloody murder on his mind, but at least outwardly, you can't claim that you knew that in court if you shoot him at that point.

Or another point, mostly applicable to the females. Statistically, you're far more likely to be assaulted by someone you know--a date, abusive spouse, obsessed coworker--than a total stranger busting in your door. That familiarity makes it difficult to pull the trigger with a firearm when the guy isn't imminently threatening your life. Maybe he's yelling and throwing things all over the room, but hasn't yet assulted you directly. Again, with the less lethal, you have a much wider window of opportunity to appropriately use that weapon get out of the dangerous situation than with a lethal weapon, like a gun. If you try and walk away and he grabs your wrist, do you shoot him with a gun? Now, ask the same question if you have a can of pepper spray in your hand.

Anyway, a bit rambling but my thoughts for this morning.

If we can expect to educate our children to escape on their own when the smoke detector goes off, it's not a stretch to expand that to a home invasion.

And you don't have to wait for gunshots. Maybe set up some emergency keyword. Regardless of where they are in the house, if you say it, they immediately try to exit and run to the neighbor's house or whatever plan you already have set up.

Especially with these take-hostages-type home invasions, the last thing you want is a hostage-taker having leverage over you with one of your kids or a spouse.

Actually, as Strong points out, it's conceivable that you may be put in the position of having to choose--the bad guy has your kid but you still have the chance to escape. He orders you to come to him or else he'll hurt your child. Do you obey, in an attempt to keep the child safe, or do you flee and call police? Instinctually, you probably want to stay, which is exactly how the bad guy exerts control over you. This tactic has been used many times. Remember that incredibly rare but brutally shocking home invasion in Conneticut ? One guy can psychologically control a whole family even though he couldn't physically control everyone if they all decided to bolt or fight back at once. (As a side note: I'm not even sure the two guys who did that crime even had guns.)

Most often, sound and light are your friends - audible alarm and turning on the lights in the living space. An intruder with any smarts or experience will turn tail immediately at the sound of an audible alarm, the clock just started ticking on his possible escape. And light will benefit you in many ways - you can see and describe the intruder or intruders, you can more easily fight someone in the light than in the dark if it comes to that, and (I realize this is the wrong thread) you can more easily acquire the target in the event the situation escalates and you need to fire upon them. No way would I put a round out into a darkened room, flashlight or no flashlight.

An audible alarm is fairly inexpensive mitigation - a siren mounted in your attic space, wired to your electricity (and I recommend a battery backup), with a wire running to a convenient panic button or switch that takes a few seconds to operate (I don't recommend an open button to on/off activate; a key panel that requires a code to activate (Command-7) and stop the alarm is good). Then take a few minutes to chat with your nearby neighbors, and tell them you have installed an audible alarm that should be activated in the event of an emergency only, to please call 911 should they be home and hear the alarm for more than 30 seconds. Also tell them that every month or so on a saturday afternoon you may test the alarm's operation and battery backup with a short, 10 second burst. You can of course install more home alarm with tamper switches on doors and windows, but this option is inexpensive, and requires activation to work - far fewer false alarms, in my case none since I installed this 8 years ago. It took my brother and me an afternoon to install this, albeit he has work experience in the home security business and still had the equipment to pull wires etc.

Light - the light switch to the living area is right now just outside our bedroom, but I flip that switch and the living area is illuminated. I'd prefer it was inside the bedroom such that I could turn on lights without opening the door, but my son also sleeps in the bedroom next door,and I will be opening the door to establish that he is safe too. I don't know, but I imagine any responding officers would rather have a lighted space to operate in than one that is dark. A wired phone and cell phones are always in our bedroom to make the oh so important 911 call.

So it goes like this: intruder alert, hit the audible alarm, siren begins to wail. Wife dials 911 and reports the intruder, I access my Mossberg (sorry again for polluting the non-lethal thread, this is part of my response scenario, you can substitute whatever non-lethal personal protection you want). I open the door, hit the lights, make sure the immediate area is clear of threats and check on my son. then I stand still, and wait for the police, making sure to put down the Mossberg as soon as I see their lights in the front yard.

And did I mention our big dog with a loud ferocious bark? He's a coward, but you wouldn't know that by his bark.