This is an old topic, but fresh in my mind. I just had to review a police dash-cam video and audio and watched while a young woman burned to death in her wrecked car because she couldn't cut out of a jammed seatbelt. Police on the scene just couldn't get thru the flames to extricate her. The screams went on for a long, long, time. I can still hear them.

There are plenty of emergency cutters out on the market. This is similar to the one I've just placed...and for my loved ones. Please, folks!

http://saveyourlife.us/resqme.html?gclid=CLPap6Ly550CFRtY2godIBRyLg

That is a hideous way to die.

Will be interested to see how this discussion goes. I recently acquired and now carry in the car the CRKT MAK-1 and Extrik-8.

http://www.agrussell.com/product.asp?pn=CL-2050&bhcd2=1257016044

MAK-1 is a rescue knife designed to meet the needs of a firefighter, made of tough 3Cr13 stainless steel at 54-56 Rc. It is truly a multiple-use tool. The chisel pry-bar tip is designed for opening doors, windows, and prying open locks and hasps. The 4-7/8" Razor-Sharp knife edge is a useful cutting tool. The handle features a deep finger choil and textured black G10 scales to give an excellent grip in wet conditions and when wearing gloves. The end of the handle has a stepped groove, which can be used as a window glass twist breaker and battery wrench. At the butt is a carbide tip breaker for instant shattering of windowpanes. An orange reflector lanyard is designed to keep the MAK-1 easily in sight. Overall length is 10". Weighs 10.0 oz

Extrik-8-R is a lightweight skeletonized seat belt cutter. It is also an oxygen bottle wrench and has two emergency screwdriver tips, blade and basic Phillips. It comes complete with an orange reflector fob and Kydex® sheath. Overall length is 4-1/8" and weighs 1.5 oz.

I started keeping a Spyderco Rescue knife and a Benchmade Rescue hook in the truck console after an accident here that had a child trapped in back because no one had a knife to cut the seat belt. He was there quite a while, fortunately no fire.

Yes- that is a bad way to go.

If the flames were already so bad that policemen could not get to the car, then the chances are that the woman inside would have had serious or fatal burns - even if she escaped. But still - you'd always want to see someone rescued if possible.

You need a cutting tool, and also an impact tool as well.

Any pocket knife with a reasonable blade would be fine for cutting a seat belt. Same goes for a tough pair of kitchen scissors, or paramedic shears. A rescue knife is also good for the job.

The impact tool is needed for breaking open the windows (drivers side or passenger side) in the event that the vehicle gets submerged. Just saw a police rescue on TV where a family in an SUV went into flood waters. Not good if you can't break windows and get out fast.

Thanks for posting this article.
It reminded me that I need to get these tools into my wife's van. She and the kids use it all the time.

Pete

I bought the MAK-1 with the intention of using it to help others. It nows occurs to me that I'm going to put a Ritter MK-5 in my driver door storage area.

Have to figure a way to secure it there in the event of a crash.

A strip of duct tape?

My wife & I carry Res-Q-Me's on our keychains.

Recently I added one to my tractor keychain figuring that if my tractor ever rolled I may need to cut my seatbelt - if I end up hanging on my side.

I also carry the larger Life Hammer in my console.

I also carry the ResQme on my keychain and LifeHammers in each car. I also have the ResQme on my carry bag and my dog walking EDC as I like to have them around even when I'm a pedestrian as you never know when you'll happen upon an accident.

Martor SOS-Cutter No. 537
http://www.martor.com/first-aid-cutters.html


Also worth looking at:
Mini-Salvex No. 536
Ruck-Zuck No. 55337

Martor is available from Germany or USA
The link I gave above is German, here is the one for USA
http://www.martorusa.com/

I hung a ResQme on the rearview mirror in the car & showed the wife how to use it.
I have another one on a keychain with a minimag solitaire & a Fox-40 Micro. Carried this overseas with me, no issues with airlines so far. I like the look of the Extrik-8R, but might get too much attention at airport security.

In the car, we also have a cheap flashlight rescue tool similar to this one:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013BP...p;creative=9325
Figure it only needs to work once...

Hanging things on vehicle mirrors can prove counterproductive. In several accidents that I've seen, the mirror was not on the windshield after the accident. Either something hit the mirror and it snapped off and/or the windshield had broken to the point that the mirror had nothing to stay attached to. In either event, anything attached to the mirror would most likely disappear in the resulting confusion.

Some folks have talked about placing them in glove boxes, ash trays, hanging on gear shifts and the like...I suspect that these places and methods will also be subject to accident issues and you may not find it where you left it.

No method of placing it is perfect. For me, the ResQMe lives on my neck lanyard along with a Fox40 whistle and an ARC AA flashlight. This method may or may not work for others. I thought about pockets,tyrapped to seat belts etc. and was unable to find a place that seemed like it would be easy to find when hanging upside down in the vehicle with glass all around...and yes, I once found myself in exactly that situation.

I'm certainly open to suggestions about other locations and your mileage may vary using a neck lanyard.

Regards,
Comanche7

Although self rescue is one consideration I can only mention that it is not always about self rescue.

If you can reach the bottom of your seat while sitting, I would clip a large carabiner around where the seat attaches to the rail in the front, then a short loop of cable to secure the ResQMe to the 'biner. It should stay in place, and yet be accessible. Hopefully.

Yes, my primary reason for buying a seat belt cutter and for carrying First Aid is to help others, not myself.

I tend to happen upon things, like stray dogs. That's why I carry extra leashes, too.

I tied one of those cheap envelope openers, with a razor blade, onto the seat belt, near the buckle, with some fishing line. Since they are so light, I don't think it needs a strong line to attach it like some heavier tool would need, even if there was a car crash, and the string is weak enough that a hard tug can snap the line.

Anyone think an envelope opener wouldn't do the job of slicing at least one seat belt? It seemed to go through an old scrap piece of backpack webbing easily enough. Not like a hot knife through butter, but not difficult either.

I think the envelope cutter would do fine, but I'm not sure I could snap fishing line. You might want to practice that...

You might be suprised how much strength you have once that adrenalin kicks in

that's a good point about the mirror possibly leaving the scene of the accident...

I don't personally like things hanging round my neck & no way would wife do it either, so I'll have another look & see what alternatives we have.
Also will add a few more ResQme tools to allow passenger, 2nd row & 3rd row access.
Maybe one in the cargo area too. (SUV/mini-van crossover)

My buddy keeps a razor-sharp Kabar USMC knife attached to his roll cage right next to him. I asked him about it one day and he explained that he had a rig catch on fire once and he almost didn't get out of the belt. Good answer.

I keep a knife in my front right pocket 24/7 and have a razor knife in my Jeep just in case.

Also keep in mind that on the ResQMe, it pulls right off the attachment ring with a good tug. I wonder if a sharp collision would separate it and scatter it throughout the vehicle. The attachment from the vehicle to the ring might be a secure one, but from the cutter to the ring is not.

I have the CRKT MAK in my truck at all times.

Word of warning,, take it out before you do a car wash! LOL that was an expensive lesson.. ofcourse my truck isn't exactly inconspicious either.

I drive a Chevy Suburban that has a large plastic surround for the ceiling light. The company installed the punch/cutter on that plastic surround, cementing the holder in place. From that position, anyone in the front two rows of seats could reach it. If it was still there.

Sue

Sod, if you look at the youtube vid I posted on the other seat beat cutter link (not sure which, there are 3 going around now), it shows that it takes a bit of a tug to seperate the cover from the cutter. Unless you have weight on the cover, it looks like it should be ok.

I would interested in finding out how the seat belt cutters work on the new inflatable seat belts designed by Ford. I believe they are going to be installed on the Explorer first next year and eventually adapted to all their vehicles in the future.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/...ts-1816548.html

I wonder if using the seat belt cutter would initiate an automatic attempt to inflate the seat belt bag? Secondly, would it snag on the belt that would be a combination of fabric and nylon webbing. These are REAR seat belts only because the front occupants already have airbags.

1. Seatbelts
2. Children
3. Window
4. Out

Is the entire belt going to be inflated? I would think that it could not be at the portion where the belt passed through the buckle. If I still had my wits I would attempt to cut nearest that portion (which would also be less to pull through).

Perhaps someone can clear this up for me, but WHY in the world is seatbelt jamming such a common problem?

You'd think they could design a buckle that would still function after an accident.

I think it's just inherent in the mechanism. On my Jeep's factory seatbelts, if I get the Jeep leaned over far enough the belts are extremely hard to get off. Plus it might have your full weight on it also. And then they are impossible to put back on due to the fact that they retract and won't come back out.

This is why I'm buying and installing racing harnesses in my Jeep for offroading. They are non-retractable and a heck of a lot beefier, plus they are specifically designed to be easily unlatched after an accident.

I'll just guess, but I'd say it's because the top two things, besides cost, they're looking for is: 1) that it doesn't unbuckle under any survivable load and 2) that when it goes "click" it's always locked. Obviously a latch that released on impact would be bad, and a false lock would be bad, too. So they're probably designed to latch harder as they're loaded.

I would bet that the design of airplane seatbelts is different, that they're designed to always be easy to release, at the expense of not being as certain to lock, because the risks are different.

Or it could just be dumb luck and bad engineering...

I am sure that the seatbelt jamming problem can be made smaller with a tiny amount of lubricant. They probably could do with a bit of lubing anyway. Don't use too much as excess oil will stain the clothes or seats. And don't expect it to eliminate the jamming problem.


With such heavy loads, I would expect the stress bearing parts of the locking mechanism to carve grooves and scars into each other, creating an interlocking set of grooves. They may also be bent microscopically out of shape (not anywhere near the point of breaking). Anyway, "keep it greasy and it'll slide easy". Anything stuck with lube present would be 10 times more stuck without lube...


Caveat: I don't know if manufacturers has put in any long lasting grease in the seat belt locking mechanism, such as grafitti (used in locks, btw). If there is, say, grafitti present, adding new oil will create a mess (oil flushing out the grafitti). And from that point you need to oil / grease regulary.

They do not "jam". There used to be a serious problem with seat belts coming undone in a crash. After a lot of research was done (mostly in the U.K. by the Department of Transport) the modern seat belt was designed. It is designed in such fashion as to ensure that if the lock fails the parts jam closed.

It should be appreciated that in 99% of all crashes the safest place for the driver or passengers is in their seats.

Situations like the present tragedy are the exception, not the rule.

Naturally we'd like the buckle to fail jammed rather than fail open, but why must it be a binary solution set?

How about option 3: Doesn't fail or jam under a survivable crash loading.

To unlatch while under a load may be asking too much for an automotive style pushbutton release, but the "aircraft style" ought to provide more leverage.

Honestly, current automotive safety systems are so much Mickey Mouse. Race cars don't have airbags or belt tensioners. They have a real harness with a real latch. Yes, I know that's "more expensive" but then again, how much do air bags cost these days?

I don't think that’s the issue. The issue is comfort and ease of use. Race style gear just isn’t comfortable when driving.

A tip for cutting seatbelt. Cut at a angle, not 90 degree. Not sure how to explain, but when cutting at 90 degree, the belts seems to fold up and get caught in hook/safety type seatbelt cutters. But cutting a seatbelt is fast and easy in a 45 degree angle

You said a mouthful. I've ridden in lots of rigs with racing harnesses, they are a pain to put on. But the difference in a rollover is night and day.

But for pavement driving I'll be leaving the regular belts in also when I put harnesses in my Jeep.

Fail SAFE.

If you can cut yourself away, you are aware enough of your enviroment to perform a primary assessment of your injuries, the location and stability of the vehicle, and can make some reasonable fine motor motions. On the other hand, if you are knocked out by banging your head on the window during an accident that includes a roll over, the last thing you want is to have your seatbelt release on you, letting you get tossed about. Heck, you wouldn't that if you were concussed, but if my bell has been rung I'd rather be dangling like a pinata than being a lump of rapidly cooling spare parts. (There is very little of Vermont that is flat, if you leave the road there is a very real chance you are suddenly going down hill in an axis of travel other than the designers hoped.)

Never mind that if it the seat belt releases under a shock load of a couple of tons, you've just left the windshield during a 40mph collision.

I want that sucker to jam up good and tight

Sorry, I just don't think it's rocket surgery to design a buckle that:

#1 won't fail open at design load
and
#2 will reliably release after being subject to design load

What I have heard a few times was the location of the buckle was a problem. It was easier to cut the seatbelt than it was to get past the person and shift them enough to reach the buckle.
I have been told the problem is worse with "Large" people because they are harder to reach around when they are in a car.

I wouldn't be so sure.

Besides, you left out three further parameters:
1, instinctive understanding of mechanism
2, positive function after potentially tens of thousands of usages
3, cheap

You left out the roll cage... There is welded a virtually indestructible cage of steel around the volume which the driver + map reader occupies. With that kind of protection + the real harness you don't need air bags. (And the way these guys drive, there is a very real risk that the air bag could be set off during hard landings).

I'd like to cover a few issues in this thread.

First of all, like some of the other folks here who were/are first responders, we prefer crashes with people in seatbelts, because that usually means extrication, not recovery.

To address some other points:

Jamming: seatbelts come in a range of engineering concepts, all share some sort of intertial sensing that locks the belt on impact (it's a pawl on a ratchet sort of assembly) and the force of impact can cause deformation in the structure of the belt latch, so that's why they sometimes jam.

Airbag seatbelts: all airbag systems deflate moments after deployment. in the case of the ford seatbelt airbags, the same concept applies. the entire belt is not an airbag, so there are cut points for ordinary tools (I used Medic shears almost exclusively to cut seatbelts on extrications. Medic shears are advanced alien technology).

Fixed (racing) vs. adjustable: a 5+ point harness is a great thing - IF you are a baby in a car seat, with your own personal roll cage. For normal adult drivers, the 3 point harness method is the only realistic method when you have no idea of size and shape of the people who will be driving a vehicle.

Finally...very few crashes result in fire, and not that many crashes are into water. I don't suggest NOT being able to self-extricate from a stuck belt, but it's not a scenario that is all that common. A Res-q-me tool or a lifehammer is a perfectly good tool - don't hang it from your rear-view mirror (I see that a LOT)if you intend to actually be able to find it after a wreck. It needs to be affixed somewhere in the vehicle.

They all do that, the question is when one is subjected to more than the design load would you prefer it to fail open or fail closed?

It is going to fail open when you exceed the tensile strength of the webbing, regardless.

So strike "design load", and insert "webbing tensile strength"

Now can I get a properly designed buckle?

I remember reading somewhere that modern seatbelts are a tradeoff in design. For the buckle to be big enough to not deform in an accident it would have to be much heavier and latch stronger and less people would use them. They had to design them light, simple and as minimally intrusive as possible so the most people would wear them. The baby/toddler carriers/seats are a good example, it takes a lot longer to buckle them in than it does an adult and if it took the adult that long most would just skip the seatbelt.

Wait until you have a seat belt buckle/latch fail in an accident. My mother did in 1989, and GM paid all the medical bills no questions asked.

I doubt that would happen today.

Everything in engineering is a tradeoff in design.
Seatbelts work very very well, the chance of an injury due to a seatbelt jamming closed is tiny compared to the number of saves from wearing one.

If you are concerned you should also wear a cycle helmet when driving. More people suffer serious head injuries in car accidents than in cycling accidents.

As an engineer, I agree 100% that every design is a compromise. But I'm still not convinced that it is impossible to bias that compromise just a little bit more towards robustness.

And no one need worry that I'm not going to wear a seatbelt for fear of it jamming - I understand physics!

I was just asking myself, "How often do seat belt buckles actually jam?" Is there a statistic anywhere out there?

Seat belts are probably cut all the time by first responders, but I suspect that few are actually because the buckle jammed, as Martin also alluded to. I would think that the majority of cases where the belts are cut have nothing to do with the buckle. The structural damage to the vehicle or the final position of the belted occupants probably make it easier to cut the belt than try to reach the buckle.

I didn't watch that video, but was the buckle actually jammed? If a car interior is on fire, the last thing I want to do is stick my head inside a flaming oven to reach over and unbuckle the belt. Is that the reason why they're yelling for something to cut the belt?