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#186290 - 10/23/09 02:19 PM Re: Small planes, what to wear for safety? Avoidance? [Re: Hike4Fun]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
There were a few threads on here a while ago about flight suits and other protective clothing.
I was unable to find them with a quick search but I seem to remember Nomex coveralls being mentioned a few times in them.
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#186301 - 10/23/09 03:30 PM Re: Small planes, what to wear for safety? Avoidance? [Re: unimogbert]
yelp Offline
Member

Registered: 06/04/08
Posts: 172
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: unimogbert
Dress for the night or two of waiting for rescue after treating injuries. Consider how you'd dress if you knew you'd be pinned in your seat that long.


This. unimogbert, that's an interesting website the NTSB has on aviation accidents - thanks.

Scafool mentioned recent threads on related topics - here's one:

http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=169394&page=1

Chuck Roast also markets nomex fleece.

http://www.chuckroast.com/fire-safety/nomexfleece.php

No affiliation.
_________________________
(posting this as someone that has unintentionally done a bunch of stupid stuff in the past and will again...)

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#186353 - 10/23/09 11:52 PM Re: Small planes, what to wear for safety? Avoidance? [Re: yelp]
UpstateTom Offline
Member

Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 165
Loc: Rens. County, NY
Avoidance - Don't do what I did once, which was ride along with a non-instrument rated pilot at night or in anything but good weather. Night VFR is possible, but we ran into light rain coming back from Plattsburgh and only got back because we were lucky. Luck isn't a good plan.

Pilots have their minimums, both the required ones and their personal ones. As a passenger, I have my own, too: I won't fly commuter sized airplanes in the winter from airports where it snows. I won't fly in single engine aircraft at night. I won't fly with a non-instrument rated pilot in anything but daytime and good weather.

Flying in a light plane, I watch the pilot do the pre-flight, and when I'm in the air I'm scanning for traffic much of the time.

Maybe a bit paranoid, but I don't have to travel much for work, so I can get away with it.

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#186364 - 10/24/09 01:12 AM Re: Small planes, what to wear for safety? Avoidance? [Re: UpstateTom]
JohnE Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 601
Loc: Southern Cal
Wear sensible clothing, take small plane apart and load it into the cargo hold of a much bigger plane...


_________________________
JohnE

"and all the lousy little poets
comin round
tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson"

The Future/Leonard Cohen


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#186370 - 10/24/09 02:28 AM Re: Small planes, what to wear for safety? Avoidan [Re: JohnE]
nurit Offline
Member

Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 191
Loc: NYC
grin

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#186373 - 10/24/09 02:38 AM Re: Small planes, what to wear for safety? Avoidance? [Re: JohnE]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
The few pilots I've known (small aircraft) have generally agreed that the most common reason for engine failure is water in the fuel. Since water is heavier than the fuel, it sinks to the bottom of the tank. Most pilots will drain a cup or so of fuel out of the tank prior to every flight. Some pilots forget, are drunk, are thinking about other things, or don't think it's necessary.

Some pilots fly too low over ridges and get caught in downdrafts. Some don't pay enough attention to their altimeters, or didn't adjust it for the barometric pressure, or don't really know what the elevation is of the terrain they're flying over.

Always ask the pilot if he/she has filed a flight plan. Or be with him when he does it. If you're too embarrassed to ask, you're too dumb to fly. If he/she says something like, "What's wrong, don't you trust me?", say "Not with my life, no."

A little Cessna 150 can go over 300 miles on one tank (depending on the plane, the load and how much throttle the pilot uses). That distance would provide a search area of over 70,000 square miles, about the size of Missouri. With two skinny people on board, no cargo, a tuned engine and a decent tailwind, maybe about 500 miles, so you can kick the search area up to almost 200,000 square miles (three-quarters of Texas).

Good advice seen here before: "Dress for egress" and "Dress to survive, not to arrive".

Sue

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#186407 - 10/24/09 07:46 PM Re: Small planes, what to wear for safety? Avoidance? [Re: UpstateTom]
yelp Offline
Member

Registered: 06/04/08
Posts: 172
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: UpstateTom
Maybe a bit paranoid,


Paranoid? Not at all. I agree that avoidance is the first line of defense (I'm a huge fan of running away) and with that, I'm going to copy your suggestions on to some post-it notes and sprinkle them liberally through appropriate sections of my prep library. Speaking of, Pelton's "Come Back Alive" and USRSOG's "Six Ways In and Twelve Ways Out" have a good bit to say about air travel safety and survival.

Charley Shimanski of the Alpine Rescue Team notes that in small fixed-wing craft, the forward momentum is what injures and kills people in crashes. Helicopter fatalities generally result from fire in the aircraft after the crash. The helo typically stays together, the tail boom might come off.

Though a bit off-topic, the following are a bunch of random "points of interest" I've been fortunate enough to pick up from OTHER peoples' experience - not my own, thank goodness. I need to emphasize that I am not a pilot and if there's anything listed contrariwise to anybody's training and experience, please let me know. Regardless, I feel like I'm preaching to the choir here.

First and foremost: In an in-flight emergency, your bag of tricks can't be a big bag; you don't have a lot of time. There's an average of 30 seconds from the onset of emergency to impact (except for a controlled flight into terrain, but there isn't much you can do to prepare for that). So keep emergency gear in your pockets - as others have noted, the
airframe and survival kit may be on fire. The mental checklist should run something like this: Door! Reference! Belt! Grab your nose, guard your nose, get small, escape position.

Make a note of which way the buckle of the seat belt opens every time you strap in 'cause in an emergency you don't want to waste time trying to "open" your seat belt the wrong way.

On impact, do not look sideways.

Having a flight helmet means you're 7 times more likely to survive. If you have a loaner, DO NOT put the visor all the way down, only half way down (though I don't remember the explanation why - anybody?)

Take your wallet out of your hip pocket before you strap in; you'll conform to the seat much better.

In effecting egress, don't kick at the center of the window, kick out the side of the window.

Does your helicopter have floats? Skid mounted floats or fuselage mounted floats? With fuselage mounted floats, push out the window - DO NOT open the door so the sliding door doesn't cut the float. Floats can last up to 20 minutes (or fail at any time). A helicopter with floats will roll in four-foot seas. In any case, get away from the ship.

In some fixed-wings, if the flaps are down the rear doors don't open. Inconvenient at best.

39 lbs buoyancy defeats a fit adult, so don't put on / inflate the life jacket after you get out of the airframe.

When flying at night, some folks tape activated lightsticks to the corners of windows and doors to help identify potential exits. Some military helicopters have an overhead cable that runs right to the door. Pay attention to things that might get you out of the airframe.




Edited by yelp (10/24/09 07:57 PM)
Edit Reason: clarification
_________________________
(posting this as someone that has unintentionally done a bunch of stupid stuff in the past and will again...)

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#186408 - 10/24/09 07:50 PM Re: Small planes, what to wear for safety? Avoidance? [Re: Hike4Fun]
litlefoot01 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/18/09
Posts: 25
Loc: NY
Most of the time it wold be human error or wether
know what your doing wenn you chater a flight.
but dont not think it wont happen to you.

litlefoot01
be safe get prepard

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#186485 - 10/25/09 11:15 PM Re: Small planes, what to wear for safety? Avoidance? [Re: Russ]
BruceZed Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 319
Loc: Canada
Nomex as the shell and a natural material like Marino Wool for your wicking inner layer. Leave all your fleece etc packed until you get on the ground.
_________________________
Bruce Zawalsky
Chief Instructor
Boreal Wilderness Institute
boreal.net

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#186527 - 10/26/09 12:46 PM Re: Small planes, what to wear for safety? Avoidance? [Re: Hike4Fun]
KTOA Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 86
Loc: SoCal
Please read the Nall Report (Report—Accident Trends and Factors) before listing rumour, urban legend, blanket one size fits all statements and just plain guessing (unless identifed as such.) Some of the responses are just bizarre.

http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/nall.html

To the OP - small aircraft cockpits are small. Wearing add'l equipment is problematic not the least of which you will bake in the heat, especially while taxing on the ground. Be aware restriction of movement is a concern. And in the unlikely event I have to quickly exit the aircraft a lot of the suggested equipment will impede that ability. I do carry Nomex gloves in the very unlikely event of an in-cabin fire.

A pre-flight passenger briefing is required before every flight by the pilot. Just like the airlines, we follow the exact same reg. At a minimum, it should include how to use the safety equipment, what is available, how to exit the aircraft, where to meet, what is expected of the pilot/passenger during an emergency, etc.

The vast majority of emergencies can be handled in a safe, prompt manner with the proper knowledge and training. Trust me -- I want to go home for dinner every night. My risk management (training, experience, common sense) has made it a safe proposition for me to fly small aircraft.

And finally aviation is like any other endeavour. You have bad automobile drivers, bad doctors, bad lawyers and bad pilots. The system can never be perfect.



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