Two things come to mind; the legality of it, and the need for it. As for the legality of it; I wont speak on that, thats for you to look into. As for the need...is there trouble there? Has there been? I lived mostly in communities of 50,000 or less, and have never seen, nor even HEARD, of a church having a protective detail until a few years ago. Where is our society going?!?!?!

All that being said, here is how I feel it should be run; security guards, armed or otherwise, should be entirely separate from the congregation. They should neither be hired from, nor belong to, the congregation. This prevents any possible legal issues.
If they are armed, ENSURE they have had the correct training!!! I cannot stress this enough; someone who shoots a kid for spitting on a sidewalk, the whole church would suffer. Firearms come with daunting responsibility; do NOT take this likely.
Uniforms are an absolute must. IF there is an incident, it is easy for the local PD to pick out who they are. And, a visual presence can prevent most issues.
The congregation should be left alone-if someone carries in church, that is his/her business. Legal or not. Unless they are passing through metal detectors, or causing issues, there would be some legal issues with a search of a person, unless there is some sort of agreement beforehand. And, unless your security detail are police, or have had police training, they likely dont know how to search, and what violates an individuals rights, etc.
There are a lot of legal issues involved here-and, its best not to skirt them. You can put the whole congregation at risk. CCW plain clothed security isnt an option IMHO; there are too many variables. I also am not a fan of allowing members of the congregation to carry firearms, as you dont know the level of training of them-people panic in times of stress....

Sorry, but I simply cannot fathom going to a church that needs security...I dont think I would want to be part of that community, if I had a choice. No offense to the OP...but a place of peace shouldnt NEED this level of protection. It simply baffles the mind!!!

IMO, any armed security should be contracted out to locally licensed professionals, either from a security company or (with OK of their employer) local LEOs.

This is not a DIY volunteer project. Way too many legal and liability problems.

Not quite the same situation, but our HOA had a security problem, and looked at various alternatives, and ended up hiring off duty local police to provide some additional security. Worked out well; they can use their police vehicle and are in radio contact with their dispatch. Plus, it helps our underpaid police.

RE Identifying who is on the team

"Color of the Day"

The members wear a bandana, a hat, a jacket, some OBVIOUS piece of clothing that is in the "color of the day", which changes

Undercover police do this, and each shift is told the color

Yes, I can imagine that worked out very well!

Everybody knows the police and what authorities they represent. Private security, in particular armed private security, is an unknown variable. In a setting where I would not expect any trouble or reasons for security personnel, I'd react with shock and grief to the presence of either (what have the world come to and all..) - but I'd be MUCH more comfortable with the presence of a police officer than some unknown guy from an unknown private security company. I trust the training and integrity of police officers, whereas some private security companies may or may not train adequately (and some will hire just about anyone with enough brains to fill in their application form).


That being said, the U.S. has a much higher level of police being present and visible than my home turf. When in the U.S, it seems like almost every road block is guarded by a patrol car. At home, if I see the police doing anything else than driving past it means something serious is happening. The presence of a police officer is a very serious danger sign because they are there for a very specific and probably nasty reason.

It's not a sign of the times, but rather the way things have always been. When you get a group of like minded individuals together, anywhere, and there is an opposition to that group you've got the potential for trouble. Places of worship have always been and will always be targets for someone. I challenge you to find an era where no places of worship have been attacked. You've just been lucky and/or have not heard about incidents.



You're right, they SHOULDN'T NEED that level of protection, not in this country of supposed tolerance and freedom. However, in my opinion, it is smart to be prepared for any contingency especially where history shows a need for one.

It shouldn't; especially in small, quiet, rural communities.

There are places that normal people would like to think we are safe. However, if you actually think evil is going to stop at the door of our churches, homes or schools then you aren't looking at history very objectively.

There are many examples but here is one recent case. The perpetrator has not been caught.

http://newsok.com/life-goes-on-in-anadarko/article/3400327?custom_click=lead_story_title#

The grisly Aug. 23 slaying of the Rev. Carol Daniels garnered international attention after her mutilated body was found on a Sunday afternoon inside the Christ Holy Sanctified Church. Sources told The Oklahoman Daniels was found nude and in what appeared to be a "crucifix position” behind the altar.

I agree, oldsoldier, that we shouldn't need this level of security. But sometimes we do.

Not all of us go to "church." I, for instance, regularly go to a synagogue, as I am Jewish. Truth be told, the US is the ONLY country I've ever gone to synagogue in where there were not guards armed with automatic weapons on site to protect the congregation. (I've worshiped in synagogues in the US, Germany, Israel, Greece, Nepal, Thailand, and Singapore. I even stopped by at the Jewish comunity center in Senegal once, but that was located in the Israeli consulate, so it doesn't count.) Unfortunatly, there are people out there who for whatever reason just don't like us Jews. Just a few weeks ago, there was a group of protesters outside of synagogues in Brooklyn, NY, holding up signs saying the "God hates Jews." Nice.

Standard procedure here in NYC is to hire off-duty police to provide armed security. At the larger synagogues, there is someone full time (often a retured cop who can still be armed), at the smaller ones it's only on the holidays or when something visible is going on.

I was a trustee of a synagogue in Brooklyn for a year, and I have to say, lines of communication with the NYPD were generally quite good. Our local precinct usually parked a car outside the building on holidays or when we were hosting public events, and regularly gave us a headsup if they came across something we should be aware of.

That said, legally armed private citizens in NYC (outside of their homes) are rare in NYC, so we never even considered the option of providing our own armed security. Ushers were always instructed to be on the lookout for "suspicious individuals" and to hit the panic button if necessary. (Silent alarm painic buttons wired to the NYPD were in the rabbis' office, at the pulpit, and near the front door.)

Thanks for the continued comments, all good points to consider.

One issue discussed was that any potential member of the security team would need to have the ability to meet the same background criteria as for a CCW license.

My community is over 400,000, so we get the good and bad. There have been some vandalism and break-ins during nighttime hours.

Here are some church incidents from the last 6 years which have gotten many churches at least thinking about increased security:

* August 23, 2009: Anadarko, OK. The mutilated body of Rev. Carol Daniels was found inside the Christ Holy Sanctified Church on a Sunday afternoon. She was nude and in what appeared to be a "crucifix position” behind the altar.

* March 8, 2009: Marysville, IL. 27-year-old Terry Sedlacek walked into the morning service at First Baptist Church of Maryville, approached the Rev. Fred Winters, firing four times before his handgun jammed, fatally wounding Winters. Two parishioners were injured with a knife as they subdued Sedlacek.

* November 23, 2008: Clifton, NJ, Joseph “Sanish” Pallipurath killed his estranged wife and another churchgoer and injured one at the St. Thomas Syrian Orthodox Knanaya Church.

* July 27, 2008: Jim Adkisson killed 2 and injured 7 at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville, TN. Believed to be out of his hatred for the church’s “Liberal social policies”.

* July 25, 2008: Brian Neiman killed after threatening Christian station WTLR in State College, PA. The gunman was killed by police on the grounds of the station. Bipolar disorder.

* December 9, 2007: Matthew Murray (24) kills two at Youth With A Mission dorm in Arvada, CO, then kills two at New Life Church in Colorado Springs before killing himself after being wounded by a church Security guard (Jeanne Assan).

* August 12, 2007: A lone gunman, Eiken Elam Saimon, opened fire in a Missouri Micronesian church, killing a pastor and two other churchgoers.

* May 20, 2007: A standoff between police and a suspect in the shootings of three people in a Moscow, Idaho, Presbyterian Church ended with three dead, including one police officer.

* Although not at a church building, the Oct. 2, 2006, attack in Lancaster County, Pa., by a gunman who killed five girls and then himself at an Amish school targeted a religious site.

* May 21, 2006: Baton Rouge, LA. Anthony Bell opened fire Sunday morning at the Ministry of Jesus Christ church hitting five people, four of them fatally before abducting his wife, whom he later shot to death at another location.

* Feb. 26, 2006: Michigan. Two people were killed at Zion Hope Missionary Baptist Church by a man who reportedly went to the church looking for his girlfriend. He later killed himself.

* April 9, 2005: A 27-year-old airman died after being shot at a church in College Park, Ga., where he had once worked as a security guard.

* March 12, 2005: A man walked into the services of the Living Church of God in Milwaukee and open fired immediately, killing seven people.

* Oct. 5, 2003: A woman opened fire in Turner Monumental AME church in Kirkwood, east of Atlanta, killing the pastor and two others.

I didnt mean to come of as niaeve or ignorant; I see it on the news all the time, and it is truly horrible. I guess the point I was trying to make was that, our society has broken down to the point where we now need armed security at places that condone peace. Its a sad state of affairs....

For the record though, I am still against a church policy that allows firearms. I have been a gun owner all my adult life, and have gone through several courses regarding them; I still wouldnt feel good with the "unknown vairables" of someone I dont know, firing into a crowd. At the very least, and to avoid any lawsuits, they should state that they ask people to keep firearms at home, and have that as an official policy. Then, it is the individuals responsibility, and not the church's, should something happen. Its sad, but thats the way we have to think these days, in a litiginous society (if I spelled that right!!).
I certainly wouldnt discourage individuals from doing what they feel they need to protect themselves, but if I were on the board for the church, I would certainly make it that the church isnt responsible for people carrying firearms.

Sorry, but topics like this disgust me. Not that people are defending themselves; that other would want to cause harm in a place promoting peace-REGARDLESS of the religious choice of the congregation!!! Its just a moral violation, akin to killing a police officer. Not only are you taking a life, you are thumbing your nose at something that people put trust in.

What is the benefit of "identifying" your security team to others? Or identifying if they're armed or not? If the team knows each other, the rest of the people don't need to know who they are. Probably better from a security standpoint if they don't. Before considering "how to identify?", first think about "why would I want to identify?" If there's no good reason to, ... don't.