#184496 - 10/07/09 05:35 PM
Re: Church Security
[Re: haertig]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1918
Loc: Washington, DC
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Perhaps TV preachers are the wave of the future.
And drive-in churches. At least then you could lock your doors. Of course there'd still be church carjackers to fear.
Perhaps the church that is the subject of this thread should actively recruit parishioners from area police departments and encourage them to bring their guns, and badges, into church (if their police department sanctions carrying their guns off-duty - I don't know what the norm is on that).
I'd much rather have professional off-duty, armed police in my congregation than nonprofessionals with concealed carry permits.
Despite the listing of past incidents in churches, I have to wonder if this is not over-reaction. In this nation of 300 million people, a significant list spanning several years can be compiled on just about any category of violence.
I don't mean to belittle this discussion. It is interesting and I'm going to discuss it with friends in a number of churches in the DC metro area. Perhaps this is a concern more widespread than I realized.
If this is the depths to which this country has sunk, it saddens me less than it angers.
I live in one of the most crime-ridden, violent metropolitan areas in America. I'd feel safe inside a church on Sunday morning in even the worst zip codes. And zip codes aren't even determinative of parishioners as people here commute from the 'burbs to attend inner city churches such as are near me (mostly Maryland plates, but some Virginia, park outside our neighborhood churches on Sundays).
Edited by Dagny (10/07/09 05:56 PM)
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#184500 - 10/07/09 06:22 PM
Re: Church Security
[Re: Tirec]
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Veteran
Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
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I'm of the opinion that things actually haven't gotten any worse over the years, there's just more of us and everyone's got a cell phone camera. Anyway, as far as your security situation goes, why not form an LLC or become official employees of the church organiztion? That way you've got some liability coverage. And why not have a uniformed security person at each entrance? The uniform can be anything from a tan blazer to a polo shirt with a logo. As long as it looks official, that type of visibility may be your first line of defense. I'm guessing someone with criminal intent is less likely to pick a target with visible security.
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#184508 - 10/07/09 08:02 PM
Re: Church Security
[Re: Tirec]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 309
Loc: Vermont
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I've been in "The Church" all my life. I'm a preachers kid. Even married one. I am also on my local churches board of trustees. Many faiths have a national structure with local districts. I'm a Methodist. We have a document that governs most everything in the church. It's called "The Discipline". Unless your church is a small independant one.(and many are) there may be some guideance for you in such a document. It's worth looking into.
_________________________
If it ain't bleeding, it doesn't hurt.
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#184522 - 10/07/09 09:11 PM
Re: Church Security
[Re: Matt26]
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Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
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First things first...
A church is an easy mark for all sorts of violent scenarios.
You don't advertise a security team. For that matter, no one involved in regular church ops need even know there's a security force active within the church. You do need to abide by all the rules and laws governing such operations, including lawful concealed carry.
The security team should know unequivically who are and aren't members without the need for special ident.
If you want a deterrence, post a sign. If you want security, don't let anyone know what's going on that doesn't need to know, which means if they aren't part of the security ops, then they don't need to be told.
At our church, we probably have at least two different security teams. I am certain only members of the security teams are aware that people are in church armed and ready to respond to threats, and the pastor is not one of the people who knows. There are action/response plans and control points that dictate how the security teams will respond to various threat scenarios.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. -- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)
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#184532 - 10/07/09 11:25 PM
Re: Church Security
[Re: benjammin]
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Old Hand
Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1185
Loc: Channeled Scablands
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and the pastor is not one of the people who knows.
Might be a good idea. A local pastor just shot his wife last week.
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#184570 - 10/08/09 12:20 PM
Re: Church Security
[Re: clearwater]
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Old Hand
Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 742
Loc: MA
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Benjaminn, I am going to disagree. Visible presence IS a deterrent-we all see this every day. Think of the cop cars parked on the side of the road-even unoccupied, people STILL slow down. Seeing security there-and it could simply be blazers-having a VISIBLE presence deters criminals. That being said-someone intent on doing someone harm WILL attempt it-security or no. Having a strong visual presence can deter your average criminal-you are hardening your target. Statistics prove out that simple visual queues can deter most criminals-many, many people put up security alarm system signs on their lawns-and dont have an alarm system. Some even go so far as to purchase fake window breach alarms, in case the criminal decides to look for himself. HE doesnt know its fake-but he sees it, and will hopefully look for an easier target. A visible security force, a good, MONITORED alarm system, and, if you want, an invisible backup force are the way to go. But, again, this is likely out of the realm of the budget for the church. At the very least, I would look into a panic button to the local PD.
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#184597 - 10/08/09 07:35 PM
Re: Church Security
[Re: oldsoldier]
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Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
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I can see your point oldsoldier, and for casual crime, visual deterrence would seem sufficient. From our perspective, a church is not a very likely casual crime risk, and advertising a security force presence there only allows an intended criminal to make better plans at overcoming the defenses. Were we dealing with something like vandalism or burglary, then a conspicuous camera placement and an alarm system would probably take care of the threat. However, our biggest risk is an armed attack during services (risk being a product of likelihood and magnitude). For this reason, clandestine armed presence seems to be the best mitigation against the greatest risk, and so our security team is independent from the administration as well (as members of the church, we are all stakeholders in the general welfare, and do not need consent from the executive level since there are no provisions against members being in church legally armed otherwise).
Given the situation that unfolded in Colorado Springs a couple years ago, where an armed assailant was neutralized by an unidentified armed security member in a church, this plan of action seems prudent and germaine.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. -- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)
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#184639 - 10/09/09 04:11 AM
Re: Church Security
[Re: benjammin]
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Addict
Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 410
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Yup. She took down the bad guy pretty quick! Good for her!
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