Let's think about the scenario for a minute - its a blizzard, which is a short term event, you're not the Donner Party. Your small stash of food/drink etc might as well go into the pot to help everyone, it won't make any direct difference to your survival. And calling more people into your area is fine, better you know they're there and they're okay than to have others separate from your party and doing not as well - bodies = heat. The rest is waste management.

If someone chooses to leave the building against your advice, you take their names for the record, where they're headed, and make sure they leave with a list of those who remain behind, an emergency contact for each one, and what their status is (all ok, cold, low food, 2 diabetics). Ask them to contact authorities to send help, and to let family members know. Then you sing their death songs, and hope they get through. You're not lost in the Andes either, you're probably in an office park, one of you has a misconception about how far and how tough it will be to walk out to safety. They may end up as popsicles, or they may be heroes around the water cooler the next week when things are back to normal, for bringing you help. It doesn't matter - if you've decided to stay put and keep people warm safe and calm until the storm blows over, that's how you assess the situation, its your brand of heroism. Your best argument against people going off on their own is to wait for the storm to die down - they're best argument may be 'if we wait, [Carol from Accounting] may go into a diabetic coma.' Without some proximate danger to one or more in your group, the best course is to wait for better weather, and you appeal to folks on that basis. You may be cold and uncomfortable for 48 hours, but most often no one is going to die simply by staying put.

I would just repeat the earlier warning against starting any kind of fire in an office building. I don't believe it will be necessary, and if it was you really don't want to deal with the smoke in return for the heat you would get from a paper fire. Closing doors and moving to an interior space will retain more heat than you could possibly generate from a fire indoors.

In newer buildings the water may not have been in the pipes long enough for the crap to form in it. Also, in more recent years, sprinkler systems are actually more likely to have been tested at regular intervals, which would exchange the water in the pipe (at least some of the pipe) every so often if tested from a properly located inspector's test valve (at the farthest point on the system from where water comes into the building).

I don't think a fire in an office would be a good idea. I was just suggesting alternatives like a fire outside the building.



ROFL, that's awesome.

I have never heard of any problems caused by the gunk in the lines that would affect whether the sprinkler system would be able to flow water. Those systems are at a very high pressure and will blow whatever is in the line out, no problem.

The only issue I know of is sometimes shutoff valves won't fully close after years of buildup, and every now and then a waterflow switch won't reset to normal operation after water stops flowing in the system (i.e. - during a fire or a system test). The water still flows fine, it just causes issues with the fire alarm system detecting the operational status of the sprinkler system.

IF there was a pot and everyone is throwing something in it, that is fine and I will add what I have. But I know the people around me. While they are mostly good people but none of them is even prepared with a bottle of water. So, given the situation is short term as you say, I will only announce a bottle of water available if I see someone with some medical situation. Not only that it will help ration my stash for that situation, but it will also not reveal my preparedness in the long run.

And there is the other kind of peopele. The selfish, wolverine type of people. We have two or three of those. If they are called in from neighboring buildings to join us, I better remain thristy and not take out that bottle of water from locker. One of them is so narrowly focused, he would not mind using the water to wash his smelly feet regardless of the need of older diabetic gentleman next to him. Starting a fight with this kind of guy is not a good idea in a survival situation.

The mere presense of one of these guys in the same room will start me boiling in no time. And their behaviour in no way helps the sitaution to cool down.

I guess it all depends on the folks you expect to be there when it all happens.

Interesting. Since I am the one who keeps 20+ gallons of bottled water and a stockpile of food on hand at work, I guess it is redundant for me. I am already sharing these supplies with everyone in our group, and keep the stock up sufficiently. Since I am able to plan for this, I can surplus the supplies so that it doesn't burden my private stash, and everyone is grateful and would be moreso when something bad happens. I'd say we have enough provisions for all of us to get by on for at least 3 days should we have to shelter in place. Since we are in a secured area, I really don't have to plan for provisioning for anyone else outside our group. Yeah, it costs me about $50 a month. I accept donations, which helps ease their conscience. More importantly, they feel cared for, and such outlays have no significant impact on my budget plans.

[quote=ChiselAnd there is the other kind of peopele. The selfish, wolverine type of people. We have two or three of those. If they are called in from neighboring buildings to join us, I better remain thristy and not take out that bottle of water from locker.
...
I guess it all depends on the folks you expect to be there when it all happens.
[/quote]

Interesting, I'm sorry to hear that. Maybe it would be good to implement Plan B with these hard-hearted thoughtless folks - they walk through the door, you mark them 1,2,3 with your Sharpie. They ask what for, you tell them its the order in which the group has decided to eat people when you have to resort to cannibalism. Maybe they'll go lighter on the foodstuffs. I jest of course - but any available food could be important in maintaining sugar levels in known diabetics, I don't think I would take much guff if I had little food but alot I needed it for.

In a blizzard water is going to be the least of your problems.
Just put a garbage bag in a container and let a load of snow melt inside it.
You are not going to be resorting to cannibalism either, as romantic as it might seem at first.

Keeping people from getting to bored for the few days it takes to dig out is the big one. Keeping them from feeling hungry is the second one. Honest.

The scenario posted has enough people in it that even if they had no clothing at all they could stay warm just by huddling and sleeping in a pile.
Something for mattress padding would add to comfort though. How much shredded paper did you say there was?

Dealing with sanitation might be something to think about, but there will be plenty of paper shreds, waste baskets and garbage bags if the toilets are not working.

My Reply:
"First, we need to kill and eat the weakest of us.
Next, everyone pees into this pot, we'll distill drinking water.
I've got some scotch here in my drawer, go get some cups. "

No, OK, seriously. We're in New York City, and the scenario you're talking about is so unlikely as to be not really worth planning for.

HOWEVER, there is a scenario that is similar that IS worth planning for, and that's a "dirty bomb" in the area, which would force a shelter-in-place for a bit of time. I don't think it would kill utilities off, it really depends on where and how the detonation happened.

I've already been named as the "Emergency Management Coordinator" for the office, and we hold occasional staff meetings to discuss fire safety and emergency preparedness.

We're 64 people on this floor. At any given time we have about 100 gallons of drinking water on hand in the form of those 5 gallon water cooler jugs, and the building itself has a set of very large water tanks on it, so we're gravity-fed so the water supply would be available. There's a few things I'd do with water supply and sanitation (grab water and fill the empty water containers, and make sure that we held out enough water for flushing toilets if the big tanks ran dry).
The people I work with are smart and resourceful, and I'd think that we'd be quite adept at managing ourselves and our supplies. Food would be an issue, there's not much here, but if we had a confirmed dirty bomb incident and the streets were too "hot" to go outside until decontamination, I don't thing we'd have trouble keeping people on low rations for 72 hours.

So in short, while I'd expect to be called on for emergency management, I also have a lot of confidence in my office and company ownership to do what's right and prudent in an emergency.

That's a good place to be, I'll add a Me Too. While I like thinking through these scenarios, there's something a little stilted about them if you can't account for your *actual, real world* preparations, rather than assume the worst and improvise throughout. Unforecasted blizzard is very remote here, but something similar like a dirty bomb is a possibility that would require an enforced stay. In our building we have a cafeteria, vending machines, and a decent stock of emergency supplies: meds, blankets, 72 hours water for 350 people @ 1 gal a day - in an emergency all we need is someone from Security to open the container for us, but frankly the right bolt cutter (like the one in my car trunk - hmm, should move that into my office) will do in a pinch.

Two story building, lots of PCs, servers and air ventilation. I would move everyone down from the second story and work to tape up the vents and reduce air circulation. Lots of windows that could shatter in a near blast, with lots of casualties as a result. Better check on the stock of kerlix and 4X4s. Lots of interior, windowless offices and conference rooms to occupy.

Honestly though Martin, I had thought that in the event of a dirty bomb, our best option was to move away from ground zero (away, and up wind) as quickly as possible, and hopefully await decontamination? Although if we have casualties from flying glass, I can understand hunkering down and waiting for rescue / wounded evac, and minimizing the infiltration of radioactive fallout by putting stories and material above you and restricting air flow. I miss the days when my office was located below the technical library, my first task was to tip over the stacks and put as much of that paper between me and the fallout.

Here's the deal.

We're located in Chelsea. Not a prime "Target Zone" at all. There's the Wall St. area to the south of us and Midtown (where all the banks and Times Square is) to the north.

What working in NYC teaches you is that the emergency response (to a real emergency) here is fast. I mean FAST. I mean, when the big steam explosion happened up the block and they thought it was a car bomb, we're talking about 45 to 90 SECOND response time. There's radiation monitors all over the place, both fixed and mobile via trucks and aircraft, and the one thing they learned from the World Trade Center attacks is that Dust is Deadly. More so if it's radioactive dust. While I'm not privy to any specific plans, I do know that a "shelter in place" strategy is key to maximizing survivability and to minimizing the spread of radioactive debris. I also know that they can - and will - shut down whole areas of the city as needed to prevent contamination.

They practice mass movement of police frequently - they call them "Critical Response Surges" - see http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/29/nyregion/29surge.html as well as
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcKk_kBrdk4

So, if they drop something at Penn Station (near me), before I can get downstairs, the cops are going to be blocking access to the area, watching for the second hit, EMS will be doing Triage, and the best thing we can do is stay the hell out of the way.

That's interesting, I suspect the shelter in place strategy may be driven by the logistics of decontaminating a very large population? A few years back the feds held a TOPOFF drill in downtown Seattle and simulated a dirty bomb scenario, and decontaminating and treating everyone near ground zero was a feasible part of the plan. The population of Seattle is alot less than the population of New York City.