Part of the answer to how people answer the question is their cultural upbringing. I was raised on a couple of farms in Texas. We had neighbors in sight, and everyone helped out when someone had a cow get loose or got injured. I'd say there were a couple of reason. First, it's the moral thing to do. Everyone deserves a helping hand the first time around regardless of fault. We all make mistakes, and you hope the other guy learns from his, just like you did. If the guy keeps needing help, however, it gets to be a burden and help trickles down to a stop. Lots of people need help through no fault of their own. If the cow got out, it took milk off the table for their kids. That's not right.

Another reason was, we're all in the same boat, and we're all going to need a neighborly hand somewhere along the line. You give help, and you know you'll get help.

This brings me to a thought no one has broached: all these supposed emergencies come to an end someday, and we're all back in our homes again with those neighbors. Did they come to you for help? Did you pull your gun out and tell 'em to drop dead because they should have planned like you did? Or did you pull out a box of powdered milk and say sure, I don't have regular milk but here's some powdered milk - will that help your baby?

> I can't imagine shutting the door on friends/family/neighbors.

It's inconceivable to me, but that's how I was raised.

I think Scafool hit on the nearest thing to a solution. It's back to the cardboard sign concept: Work for Food. Trade labor and knowledge for admittance to the survival 'group'.

* That 'old witch' down the street knows wild foods and herbs.

* The engineer and the builder can come up with small new shelters build with materials from damaged homes.

* Gardeners teach and spread out work teams to plant food in every available niche. They save seed to plant more.

* Larger-scale survival is like a farm that depends on manual labor -- the more laborers, the more work gets done.

Sue

I think when push came to shove I would help all I could without compromising the welfare of my family, children and the elderly have top priority and I would sacrifice considerable comfort on their behalf. As Philip said 'We are all in the same boat' and if we can't show some consideration to others why are we trying to continue on?

Just a pitch for pre-planning - do a neighborhood inventory before a disaster strikes. Find out where the doctors, dentists and nurses live, who does construction for a living and has access to heavy equipment (and chain saws, we're heavily wooded), and who the lawyers are, they will need the most help (that's not a joke). As part of my two block survey I talked to about 85% of my neighbors, and located gas and water shutoffs for 70% of them (a few didn't want me tromping on their property or to spend the time). On two of them the water main shutoff was rusted shut, and would be impossible to turn in an emergency. I recommended they contact the utility or a plumber for a fixup, and I happen to know at least one of them did. Then chart the locations (green dot for water, blue dot for gas, N S E or W of house) and keep your neighborhood map handy - I made 3 copies, in the event of a bad shake I hope to hand them out to people in the golden hour after the earthquake and ask them to quickly check for water or gas leaks and turn off those at risk (yes, I also start with 4 giveaway wrenches). The State of Washington actually encourages this inventory using a FEMA grant, it took all of a weekend afternoon and I got out and met people I'd never seen before.

Big advice: don't ask about guns, kids, preparation, or anything too personal - there's no need, and its none of your business. Anyone coming to your door is usually looking for money or for something from you. I always left behind a flier with a description of what I was doing and where I lived, which is right nearby. If I were to do this again further away from my home I would definitely precede my visit with a door hanger that said I would be walking around on x afternoon doing an inventory. And I think this would be a nifty project for a Boy Scout troop doing their emergency preparedness merit badge. But a 2 block radius is about all I could handle in a disaster.

> I would definitely precede my visit with a door hanger that said I would be
> walking around on x afternoon doing an inventory. And I think this would
> be a nifty project for a Boy Scout troop doing their emergency preparedness
> merit badge. But a 2 block radius is about all I could handle in a disaster.

I participated in a county experiment to see if it was feasible to hand out drugs if a terrorist released some communicable agent (think giving out Cipro in an anthrax attack). They'd already tried an experiment where people were to go to a county shelter for pills or shots. Both ideas have problems.

The county had us CERT volunteers in green reflective vests walk around neighborhoods in groups of three and give out pamphlets to whoever was home and leave door hangers for vacant houses and apartments. We had ham radio operators with each group, and I know from the communications that several people called the cops about us. Because it was a county drill, the fire department, police department, and county health department all coordinated, so there were no volunteers tasered or teargassed, but the police rolled a car every time someone called so they could confirm it was us.

I'm not sure whether to advise that you alert the police ahead of time what you're doing or to say go ahead but expect the police. It's easier to get forgiveness than permission, but I have no expectation of forgiveness from the cops.

> check for water or gas leaks and turn off those at risk

I cringe whenever I hear or read this. In California, the law prohibits homeowners from turning the gas back on if it's been turned out outside. You have to get the gas company to send an employee out to inspect and then to confirm that all gas-fed appliances have pilot lights running if there are any and whatever else they check to prevent explosions and fires when they turn the gas back on. One of our firemen said after the Loma Prieta earthquake some knucklehead in his neighborhood did everyone a favor and ran through the neighborhood turning off all the gas. Needlessly, of course, and no one had any heat or cooking for a couple of days. The gas company was checking all its mains and big commercial stuff; homes were on the back burner.

I realize you've said turn off those at risk, but still I cringe. If you don't have a gas leak, don't turn off your gas.

Everybody's mileage varies, and we'll all use our best judgment.

This is a difficult call. There are lots of people who say, "When things go bad, I'm coming to your house" and that's their extent of preparing for the unthinkable. Well, what if there's a quarantine and you can't leave your house for three months? There goes that idea. What if there are roving gangs and the streets are safe?

Personally, I would be more apt to help someone who has put forth genuine efforts to prepare themselves and their families.

"...some knucklehead in his neighborhood did everyone a favor and ran through the neighborhood turning off all the gas... If you don't have a gas leak, don't turn off your gas."

That's fine in theory, but less so in practice, esp after a major quake. In the CA Northridge earthquake, about half of the mobile homes in the affected area were knocked off their foundations, and many of them ruptured their gas lines and propane tanks. The rate of ignition in mobile homes was especially high because the homes were so unstable.

"City and county building inspectors estimated that 82% of all structures rendered uninhabitable by the earthquake were residential. Of these, 77% were apartments and condominiums, and the remaining 23% were single-family dwellings. A week after the earthquake, approximately 14,600 dwelling units were deemed uninhabitable (red or yellow tagged)."*

[* From a 1994 report on the Northridge Earthquake: City and county building inspectors estimated that 82% of all structures rendered uninhabitable by the earthquake were residential. Of these, 77% were apartments and condominiums, and the remaining 23% were single-family dwellings. A week after the earthquake, approximately 14,600 dwelling units were deemed uninhabitable (red or yellow tagged).]

So, what's the REAL solution? Leave the gas running while all the nervous smokers run outside and light up?

But there is one positive side to the Don't-Turn-Off-the-Gas Theory: Most homes are insured for fire, but few are insured for earthquakes. If your home burns down, you're far more likely to collect.

Sue

Absolutely true, thanks for pointing this out to everyone Phillip. I'm aware of the issues for prematurely turning off gas (turning it back on safely), I would turn off gas only if I smelled it and felt I could safely turn it off at the source to stop a leak. That itself is iffy - I read somewhere recently about the incidence of fire and explosion, that the best course is to run away quickly and simply write off that property, and possibly the people trapped in it. Like you said, everyone's mileage varies - mine doesn't include prematurely turning off any gas without evidence of a leak. Most homes won't be unattended after an earthquake either - if a homeowner is there and gas is leaking, I ask if he/she wants my assistance turning it off. If they don't, and understand the ramifications of not turning off their gas, I move on down the street. For the first hour anyway, I'm not inclined to turn off anyone's water at all, unless there is a visible foundation leak or other running water. As per CERT, the most I'm doing right away is a quick visual run down of the area and possible damage,and preventing more damage by turning off gas where indicated. That's my plan anyway - I live 150 yards from the Seattle Fault, more than likely I will be slammed by my bedroom wall and lying unconscious beneath some rubble.

For my 2 block radius inventory I didn't inform the cops, at least half of my neighbors know me by sight, and the other half were more or less calmed when I pointed to where i lived (at worst, I was a nosy neighbor). I think Boy Scouts (in uniform) could accomplish this inventory task pretty well too without raising suspicions.

The places I've lived had meters with a safety valve that cut off the gas if there's shaking. And they weren't necessarily new so imagine that's how all of them are nowdays.

I would certainly help others in any localised or short term disaster, but in the event of TEOTWAWKI I would think twice about expending supplies that I might need in the long term for myself.

Many on this and similar forums, equip themsevelves with very expensive gear. This has a lot to commend it if your life may depend on a good knife, ot tent, or sleeping bag, or flashlight etc.
Remember though that very cheap gear is better than nothing,and is much less of a concern than good stuff, especialy if lost or given away.

As an example, I purchased a good sleeping bag for any emergency, and a number of expensive, large all wool blankets, in case heating fuel is unavailable.
Except to close family I would be most reluctant to part with these.
But I also purchased 2 dozen very cheap recycled blankets, only about £50 for the lot. These I would consider giving away to those in need.

Likewise I have a number of good flashlights, but also a dozen cheap ones, which I dont mind giving away.
In the recent Great power cut in Dartford, England, I bartered numerous cheap flashlights, each for two pints of beer !

I also keep a dozen homemade disposable battery lights, they are cheaper than chemical light sticks, give more light, for longer, and can be turned off. Worth a pint of beer each.