Has anyone had any experience with this pack? I am considering it, because it will comfortably haul a rifle, has two pouches suitable for hydration systems and claims to have 3800 c.i. I am looking for something to carry a copious ammount of gear for long hauls that will hold up to abuse.

Any experience with this equipment/suggestions/recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

I tried that, it really didn't work well.

I came to that conclusion myself. Which is why I was hoping for a critique of this system since it is uber-expensive. I didn't just want to leap into it. I like the fact that I can stow a long arm and that it allows for duel water bladder systems. It has 3800 c.i. but I am wondering if that will give me enough room for expedition type supplies, and would it reliably let me strap my stuff bag of ECWS bags and my Eureka Assault 4 to the outer straps?

When I get equipment, I believe in testing them, but this would be an expenive trial. On their site I have seen service personel using it-but that is the companies bragging rights and they all make them. How, this system would apply to real world, being out there, and you can't just go home because you "forgot something".

The pack in question:
http://www.botachtactical.com/ebmcm3oppa.html

Getting any recommendations based on any particular make and model is going to be hit or miss and is likely to be subject to a strong self-selection bias. Your talking about a $390, plus S&H, backpack marketed toward military, or wannabe military, users. There are just too many functionally equivalent backpacks out there for there to be many people who have bought that particular make and model. Those who have spent close to $400 on a backpack are highly unlikely to be anything but complimentary.

A guy who spends $60,000 on a sports car is unlikely to admit it isn't functionally any better than a $12,000 econo-box. Even if the former gets most of its road miles behind a tow truck, and spends more time in the shop than his garage, while the later is a guaranteed smooth, if not exceptionally high performance, 200,000 miles with above average fuel economy. But then again the econo-box comes with no bragging rights and the sport car looks good standing still.

You may see it differently but IMHO just about any full sized pack can carry a rifle sleeved and strapped to the side or back. It isn't hard to rig up and it isn't uncommon for people to see hunters packing their rifle without resort to a specially designed pack. Most packs built in the last fifteen years has provisions for carrying a bladder. Those that don't are usually not difficult to convert. Often just a matter of opening up and stopping a seam for the hose.

As far as similar sized quality bags go I suspect that you could get one for a lot less than $400. Catch a sale and you could save close to $200. It wouldn't have the nifty name, macho mystique of a "true go-to-war pack" or features designed for a sniper, and so it might not do it for you, but alternatives might be worth consideration.

You make a good point, this whole this is subjective. I am just looking for the very best that I can afford, because some day my life my depend on the items stuffed in that big "turtle shell" straped to my back. Because, someday, if the SHTF, there is no "going home". So, I am trying to research, well, everything from a longevity perspective.

I'm trying to operate from the mindset of "do I have the right equipment" durability/reliabiliy/functionality to thrive and survive for extended periods of time.

Here is a link for a pack that you could attach a sleeve to that would work for you I use it for hunting all the time and it works great for a fraction of the price.

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores...SSELL_THUMBNAIL

SOrry sent the wrong link here is the pack I meant to link

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores...SSELL_THUMBNAIL

Eberlestock makes some pretty solid packs. Have had the chance to play with a number of different models I can tell you that you won't go wrong purchasing one. Yes they are expensive and yes the are purpose built for military users (although they do have a good hunting line as well) so they may be overkill for some. However comparing an Eberlestock pack to the knock-offs Cheaper then Dirt sells would be more akin to comparing a $60,000 sports car to an imitation of a $12,000 built with cheaper materials by under-skilled workers.

I don't know what your actual application will be, but you mentioned abuse and long distances. The Eberlestock will do the job, do it well and hold up to all but the worst you can throw at it. No matter what pack you decide on, if you want a pack that is built well enough to carry a heavy load (relatively) comfortably on a long abusive trek(s) then you are going to need to spend some money. Sure there are civilian packs that work, but the really good ones are expensive as well.

When it comes to survival and field equipment... You get what you pay for.

So I hear "operator" I still think of a nasally-pitched woman connecting phone jacks into big banks of equipment.

Never heard of this company, though I've seen similar concept packs.

My question... what "operator" carries his rifle where he can't get to it quickly? (Pardon the male pronouns) The possible exception being a sniper, but even then, I think they have cases designed around the rifle, not the rifle as an afterthought, which is what this appears to me. Looks kinda gimmicky.

YMMV.

The moddels you played with, were you able to attach your sleeping bag and tent externally? That is an important consideration, as it will be my task to carry my own bag and the family tent. Also, in one of the side pouches made for a bladder system did you put a hydration system in there, and how did that work out for you? Sorry, for the plethora of questions, but I have finally found someone who has used the system so I am interested in as many specifics as you are willing to provide.

The market that these were designed for were the sniper community, guys who need to carry two primary weapons.

I haven't played with the bigger packs with rifle sleeves, but I have with the Halftrack and the Gun Slinger. On both backs there was ample room to lash stuff to the outside if needed. Both these packs had accommodations for hydration bladders (the Halftrack had hydration pockets on the side making it easy to access and add water without digging through all your stuff).

I never put these packs through there paces, just played with them and I plan on getting a Gun Slinger or smaller bag for a range/hunting backpack in the near future. One of the Halftrack packs I worked with had seen a tour in Afghanistan and was still 100% usable. The quality of these packs is on par with Eagle Industries, Kifaru and Mystery Ranch (you should look at Kifaru and Mystery Ranches offerings, outstanding rugged packs with lots of options to "customize").

And that is the $64,000.00 answer. In the "Old Days" we just lashed the M21 or M24 to the good old Alice large, and carried what was then known as the CAR16 or an H&K MP5SD.

Maybe that is why I have a bad back.......

That is how capitalism is supposed to work. But then again investment bankers were supposed to police their own ranks and eliminate frauds. As with many other things the conventional wisdom doesn't always shake out.

Generally the value in any market is in the middle. As you move away from the middle you get diminishing returns. Go too low and you potentially get a stand-in for a functional object. Go too high and your mainly getting specialized features you likely don't need, hype, and a brand name.

A thousand dollar backpack is Not five times better than a $200 dollar model. Often the low end has the simple advantage that you can buy in bulk, possibly getting a further discount, and toss them one-by-one as they wear out. If your handy with a needle and thread and stay on top of wear spots and weak seams any good quality pack can give virtually unlimited service.

The good news is that he average quality of camping gear has gone up. The difference between mid and top grades is seldom the materials used. Mostly it is the care taken stitching them together and attention to detail. Any deficiency in this area is pretty easy to correct if your experienced with repairs.

Note: Kevlar is being presented by some manufacturers as the be and end all of stitching. Fact is that Kevlar has to be used carefully and with considerable finesse if it is to benefit any assembly. Used incorrectly it can weaken the seam and cause it to fail in a short time. Beware of hype and buzz words.

Money is always in short supply and anything spent on one piece of gear is not spent on another. Survival is a system that demands it be handled as a whole.

I have nothing against spending money or high end gear. But the automatic and reflexive association between dollars spent and quality just doesn't hold water. If your very careful, and a bit lucky, you get what you pay for. Rare to get more than you pay for and common to get less.

I have an external frame pack that I still use for hauling cargo. Cost me $80 a couple of decades ago, I got it on sale and they knocked $10 off the price because it had a mis-stitched seam. I keep it going despite the wear and tear by assiduously inspecting, patching, stitching and reinforcing any weakness. Equivalent models are still on the market for roughly the same price window.

Hauling supplies in a group I have seen packs that sold for many times the price blow seams and generally fall apart. Often the failure was at a point that should have been spotted by any conscientious buyer. This is an argument for buying from a local shop where you can go over any prospective purchase with a fine-tooth comb and reject, or get compensated for, any defect. Any reputable manufacturer will take back and/or repair any defective product. Even discount stores will do the same; so it isn't a very high standard.

I have purchased some very high end gear. The single best high-end purchase I have ever made was a $16 pair of Dyneema boot laces strong enough to tow a truck with. This was back when it was top-dollar exotic stuff and regular bootlaces were going for $4. I put them on my work boots and most of twenty years later, on their third, or forth, set of work boots, they still look new. They seem likely to outlive me and have, in retrospect, exceeded my wildest expectations. It is often the simplest things that benefit most from high-tech solutions.

I tend to like to carry two primary. One bolt action, long distance flat shooter, and one semi-auto close in. I have no genuine interest in fully automatic weapons. I've trained on them, qualified with them, carried them-don't care for them. They are a jam waiting to happen, and it is a waste of ammo unless you are using suppression fire. In the hinterland where people have clandestine weed fields I don't pretend everyone I encounter will want to be my friend. I will take a look at the others you mentioned. I am here to learn, and have an open mind. That is my main interest in the rifle sleave being incorporated on long hunting trips to store the semi-auto.

This pack may be perfect for you then. I just wanted to throw those other brands out there as a comparison. Eberlestock is not a commonly known company because of it's niche market, but it is solid gear made by good people.

Lets try and keep this thread on track and focus more on Kingarthur's questions and less on the cost aspect. If a $400 pack isn't for you... don't buy one.