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#184603 - 10/08/09 08:24 PM Re: Group turns to you and you do what? [Re: MartinFocazio]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

More than likely the authorities wouldn't tell anyone it was a dirty bomb anyway for at least a week out of the correct assumption that releasing the information would cause more panic in the populous and make the situation even more difficult for the authorities in the clean up. All these publically held exercises are essentially just public relation exercises to show the public that they are prepared for the worst.

You will have to rely on your own instincts, if there was an incident i.e. large explosion and you get a metallic taste in your mouth (nuclear radiation fallout is notoriously difficult to detect from your own senses) it might be prudent to do you own Decom. i.e. get yourself booked into a good well built hotel (most hotel bathrooms are internal with no outside windows) after purchasing some new clothes for a good shower, scrub down and mouth wash as quickly as possible. If you don't have time to purchase clothes at least you will have a hotel bathroom robe to wear.


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#184604 - 10/08/09 08:32 PM Re: Group turns to you and you do what? [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
After reading the real information on dirty bombs it is a surprise to me how clean they are. You would be more dangerous if you lit a pile of old tires on fire.
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#184608 - 10/08/09 09:11 PM Re: Group turns to you and you do what? [Re: scafool]
celler Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/25/03
Posts: 410
Loc: Jupiter, FL
Originally Posted By: scafool
After reading the real information on dirty bombs it is a surprise to me how clean they are. You would be more dangerous if you lit a pile of old tires on fire.


I'm seriously interested in the source of the information that caused you to draw this conclusion.

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#184609 - 10/08/09 09:12 PM Re: Group turns to you and you do what? [Re: scafool]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
After reading the real information on dirty bombs it is a surprise to me how clean they are. You would be more dangerous if you lit a pile of old tires on fire.


A dirty bomb could well be a properly designed thermonuclear weapon design that has just fizzled or one that has been designed to fizzle. Take a look for example at the purple passion war head which is designed a 10 ton yield nuclear sub demolition munition used for blowing up buildings, bridges, tunnels etc. Its about the same size as a bowling ball.

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#184615 - 10/08/09 10:23 PM Re: Group turns to you and you do what? [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Originally Posted By: www.bioterrorism.slu.edu
A “dirty” bomb, or radiation dispersal
device (RDD), is a conventional, explosive
bomb to which radioactive material
has been added. The blast of the weapon
not only kills and injures directly, but
also spreads the radioactive material to
the surrounding area and via airborne
spread. The size and sophistication of
the bomb, the type of radioactive material
used, and weather conditions dictate
the extent of the contaminated area,
while the speed of evacuation dictates
the level of human exposure.
The real threat of a RDD is one of fear
and disruption. The immediate casualties
would be those of the initial blast,
but panic over potential radiation exposure
could cause additional victims and
disrupt rescue and evacuation efforts.
The area’s remaining off-limits for
several months of expensive clean up,
possibly including building demolition
and soil replacement, would cause further
disruption.
The most likely radioactive materials
to be used are cobalt-60, strontium-90,
cesium-137 and americium-241, which
are often poorly protected and readily
available from military, medical, academic,
research, and industrial sources.
As an example, cobalt-60 is used in food
irradiation, while americium is used in
smoke detectors and oil exploration.
These materials are already believed to
be in the possession of major international
terrorist groups. Military-grade
plutonium and uranium would be more
deadly, but are signifi cantly harder to
obtain, handle and safely transport.
[For information on these two isotopes,
as well as radioactive iodine, see the
“Nuclear Blast Fact Sheet.”]
Health Risks
Other than the trauma associated with being caught in the explosion itself, the primary
health risk from a “dirty bomb” is cancer from long-term exposure to residual radiation.
However, the radiation dose from such a bomb is likely to be relatively small. As an
example, a bomb with a radioactive cobalt-60 rod used for food irradiation would
deliver an average dose of a few tenths of a rem (see Units of Radiation) for people
within a half-mile radius. The average person receives 0.3-0.4 rem per year from
natural radioactive sources, and 5 rem is both OSHA’s and the NRC’s annual dose
limit for nuclear and radiation workers. At such low doses it is impractical, if not
impossible, to calculate long-term cancer risks, and both the Health Physics Society
and International Council on Radiation Protection recommend against quantitative
estimation of health risks below an individual annual dose of 5 rem, or a lifetime dose
of 10 rem, above that of background radiation. These groups cite evidence that cancer
risks from radiation exposure do not follow the linear, no threshold hypothesis used by
the U.S. EPA. Instead, there appears to be a threshold (in excess of 10 rem delivered
at high dose rates) above which the risk of cancer develops. In addition, biological
mechanisms, including cellular repair of radiation injury, which are not considered by
the linear, no-threshold model, decrease the chance of cancers and genetic effects.
[Note: The EPA, Federation of American Scientists, and others support the linear, no
threshold model of radiation exposure. This view presents a worst-case perspective
in which any exposure at all to radiation can cause cumulative biological damage,
with less damage occurring at lower doses and more damage at higher doses along a
linear progression. These projections lead to speculation that a RDD using cobalt-60,
exploded at the southern tip of Manhattan under the right weather conditions, would
render all of Manhattan uninhabitable until razed and rebuilt at a cost of 2 trillion
dollars. Naturally, the media has picked this scenario to promote, adding to potential
for panic and disruption.]
From a statistical perspective, for radiation, tumor induction is the most important
long-term sequelae for a dose of less than 100 rem. These statistics, however, are
extrapolations from known data on exposures greater than 100 rem, and, as stated
above, such extrapolations are questionable. There is, however, reliable data showing
that exposure to 10 rem causes a 0.8% increase in the lifetime risk of death from cancer.
Thus, out of 5000 people with such an exposure, 40 may develop a fatal cancer.
Other known potential sequelae of radiation exposure, including cataract formation,
decreased fertility and fetal teratogenesis, are unlikely to occur following the explosion
of a RDD.

Treatment
Inhaled particles less than 5 microns in size will end up in the alveolar area, while the
mucociliary apparatus will clear larger particles. Soluble particles are then directly
absorbed into the blood stream or moved into the lymphatic system. Insoluble
particles, until cleared, will continue to irradiate surrounding tissues. In the alveoli,
the localized infl ammatory response can produce fi brosis and scarring.
Absorption of ingested radioactive material depends on the solubility and chemical
makeup of the contaminant. For example, cesium is rapidly absorbed; cobalt, radium,
and strontium are not. The target organ for ingested radionuclides that pass unchanged
in the feces is the lower GI tract. Gastric lavage and emetics can help empty the
stomach promptly, while purgatives, laxatives, and enemas can reduce radioactive
materials in the colon. Ion exchange resins limit gastrointestinal uptake of ingested or
inhaled radionuclides. Prussian blue (Ferric ferrocyanide, an investigational new drug
from Oak Ridge Affi liated Universities, Oak Ridge, TN) and alginates have been used
in humans to accelerate fecal excretion of cesium-137.
The skin is impermeable to most radionuclides, but wounds and burns allow particulate
contamination to bypass the epithelium. Also, fl uid in the wound may hide weak beta
and alpha emissions from detectors. Because of this, all contaminated wounds must
be meticulously cleaned and debrided.


Note that when they mention additional casualties after the blast they talk about the ones caused by panic and make no mention of radiation poisoning.
The other concern is cleanup. Mostly by pressure washing and vacuuming but possibly involving excavating dirt and tearing down contaminated structures. Excavating soil and demolishing buildings are both extreme measures for cleaning up radioactive dust. Mostly they just mop it up.

Tritium would be more messy because it is usually in water and is readily absorbed into soils, building materials, plants and animals.
Tritium is not a strong radiation source but since you absorb it into your body it is a very intimate source.

Maybe I should mention the quote is from Saint Louis University, Center for the Study of Bioterrorism, School of Public Health.
http://www.bioterrorism.slu.edu/bt.htm

There is a lot of similar material on other official sites and most of it rates the effectiveness of high explosives for spreading radioactive material very poorly.
Most of them rate it even lower than this institute does.


Edited by scafool (10/08/09 10:50 PM)
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#184618 - 10/08/09 10:56 PM Re: Group turns to you and you do what? [Re: scafool]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Now, about burning a pile of tires;

http://archives.cbc.ca/on_this_day/02/12/
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#184619 - 10/08/09 11:01 PM Re: Group turns to you and you do what? [Re: scafool]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Of course we must not forget to mention the Tactical ERW weapon to extract the most terror because of the walking ghost phase.



Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (10/08/09 11:03 PM)

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#184691 - 10/09/09 04:19 PM Re: Group turns to you and you do what? [Re: dougwalkabout]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2986
Loc: Nacogdoches, Texas
Originally Posted By: dougwalkabout
As others have said, the wild card (and biggest headache) will be dealing with medical conditions with limited meds, expertise and emergency response. Offices should encourage/require people to have 72 hours of critical meds with them at all times.

Hello, long time, no see. I lost interest in the past because there was a lot to search though to find anything on what I am interested in and that is urban preparedness. Now there is a forum on urban preparedness I can now focus my time on just that.

Every place has a first aid kit of some sort. A few years ago I went to the first aid kit and it was a disaster. By this time I already had a reputation for knowing first aid and I have learned more since then. Being that this is a small organization, I went to the top about the condition of the first aid kit. He gave me the okay to clean out everything that was outdated or contaminated. By the time I was done, the big mettle cabinet had a bottle of Ibuprofen that another worker added to it, several self adhesive bandages and a few other odds and ends, some not all that useful.

For little more than $20 I bought a Total Resources International first aid kit at Sam's Club. In my opinion, this wall-mountable kit provides the best bang for the buck.

http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?dest=5&item=436447&pCatg=4962

Since it has a limited supply of examination gloves, I bought a box of Members Mark® Nitrile Exam Gloves and have it next to the kit.

http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?dest=5&item=388190&pCatg=4995

Some of the refill supplies are every affordable, such as alcohol swabs.

http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?dest=5&item=363783&pCatg=4962

Other items, such as the medications, are better off getting by using the reorder form. However, due to the cost of shipping, I find it cheaper to buy a new kit when the medications run out and at the end of one year, refill several kits in one order.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
I'm not sure whose twisted idea it was to put hundreds of adolescents in underfunded schools run by people whose dreams were crushed years ago, but I admire the sadism. -- Wednesday Adams, Wednesday

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#184718 - 10/09/09 06:09 PM Re: Group turns to you and you do what? [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Nice post. Welcome back.

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#184720 - 10/09/09 06:14 PM Re: Group turns to you and you do what? [Re: dweste]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2986
Loc: Nacogdoches, Texas
No one has mentioned this yet. Maybe newer buildings don't have them due to the new tankless water heaters but if you work in an older building like I do, the building will have hot water tanks. Most tanks contain fifty gallons each.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
I'm not sure whose twisted idea it was to put hundreds of adolescents in underfunded schools run by people whose dreams were crushed years ago, but I admire the sadism. -- Wednesday Adams, Wednesday

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