These thoughts originated over on the 'Gentleman's Pocketknife' thread.

From a (cynical) woman's point of view...

Do men of any age have ANY IDEA how decent manners elevates their 'rating' with women? I mean, REALLY. Those who don't have manners obviously don't have a clue, and I'm sure the ones who do don't realize what an incredible difference it makes.

A gentleman (in the original meaning of the word) today stands out like a beacon among a bunch of rocks --- they absolutely GLOW. And it's mainly because there aren't many of them.

Most guys behave like two-year-olds their entire lives. They must think the world revolves around them and what they want. They want sex and a mommy to take care of them (Freud was probably dead on with his Oedipus complex). Well, grow up and join the Real World. It's not too late to take lessons in manners.

What is truly amazing to women is that most men haven't got a single clue about how to go about getting what they want, and it's really, really basic:

STANDOUT MANNERS WILL GET YOU SEX.

How's that? Simple enough?

Here are a few really important basics:
* Don't spit. It isn't macho, it's repulsive.
* STOP LYING! Lying as easily as you breathe is NOT a recommendation.
* If you smoke or chew, stop. Licking an ashtray or spittoon is not high on any woman's list.
* If you don't know how to dress properly, LEARN. That scruffy look doesn't attract the higher-class woman. Why would she want to appear to be supporting a homeless guy?
* If you meet a woman you like and she doesn't like you, you aren't going to change her mind, so move on.
* Don't call, text or email a woman 30 times a day, even if she isn't working, as it means you're either a control freak or a stalker-type personality, and both are creepy.
* Public displays of affection are just showing off.
* Avoid showing off. Guys go for big things, women want you to do the little things. This alone can make or break you.
* Learn to take care of yourself. If you can't do your own laundry, clean your own place, take out the garbage before it smells, pick up your own dry cleaning or have rudimentary cooking skills, hire a maid. Ditto babysitters.
* If a relationship starts okay and then deteriorates, don't force her to get a restraining order.


Bernard Bailey: "When they discover the center of the universe, a lot of people will be disappointed to discover they are not it."

Sue

Perfect. I am printing this off for my 19 year old son. He probably won't pay any attention to it now but, perhaps, someday ...

I'm a happily married man and have followed the advice you list for decades (well, it took a while for some of it). I honestly didn't behave well so I could get what I wanted - just felt better when I wasn't being an idiot. But, the result was/is a great wife and a great life.

They could teach this stuff in school but it wouldn't do much good I guess. Men have got to figure it out for themselves.

If I was smart I would write a similar list for women.

I don't understand a thing you just said.

My grandfather summed it all up when he told me:
"Don't grow up to be a cafone."

So why am I still single? Oh wait, that's kind of by choice.

For the guys out there that can't figure most of these ones out, you'll still stand out if you can figure out a few of the basic rules, then move to an area where NONE of the guys figured out ANY of the rules!

Yup, you too can mediocre your way to greatness! lol


Seriously, good post Susan. I'd like to think that I have most of these down, but I'm sure I fail at times. Like once I'm out of work, it's Tshirt and shorts. But I hear I clean up good. Interesting it says nothing about cheating - maybe that's supposed to be too basic?

If I can find a good cook, he'll need a restraining order against me.

;-)

Susan, that's a wonderful contribution.

I make it a matter of pride to be a better man than I already am - that makes it an iterative process and, speaking from experience, it doesn't take many iterations to make a guy stand out with respect to both 'Manliness' and 'Gentlemanliness.'

There's a piece of advice I maintain for my bachelor friends (and myself) - take a weekend and go to 1) a bowling alley, 2) a laundromat, and 3) a Starbucks. Take a look at the guys you find in each of these venues. This, my friend, is your competition. As Susan said, it doesn't take much.

"There are some things which cannot
be learned quickly, and time, which is all we have,
must be paid heavily for their acquiring.
They are the simplest things,
and because it takes a man's life to know them
the little new that each man gets from life
is very costly and the only heritage
he has to leave.

"Every man's life ends the same way, and it is only the details of how he lived and how he died that distinguishes one man from another."

-Ernest Hemingway

But that doesn't mean we can't get help along the way. I didn't have very good role models growing up, but that didn't turn out to be much of a handicap as the interest was there. Latent, yes, but still present.

Things that might help: Esquire magazine, Mollod and Tesauro's "The Modern Gentleman - A Guide to Essential Manners, Savvy, and Vice," and the Thin Man movies. Oh, and there's no motivation like not wanting to be an idiot around a pretty girl

I've written a fair amount on etiquette and dress - rather than clog the thread with a wall of text that nobody cares about, if anybody's interested just PM me.

I can't argue with your facts!!!!

P.S: No, I'm not dead yet!!

To this day, I am still thankful my high school had an assembly every prom season to teach etiquette and manners.