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#180580 - 08/27/09 12:16 PM Re: Film-Maker Airlifted Dying of Starvation [Re: Todd W]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Originally Posted By: Todd W


Can you own a handgun in Canada?
The website is confusing because it says certain calibers are prohibited, and then the ones not listed to be prohibited are restricted. Does restricted mean you can't own it at all?? It's written clear you can't own one with a barrel under 4.14" or .32 or .25... the rest are just "restricted".


You are right, it is confusing.
Prohibited means not allowed at all.
Restricted means you need special permits, and that there is a reason you need the weapon.
For example police and military get a permission to carry a pistol.
Private citizens can get a permit to own a pistol for shooting at a range, but not as an item to carry.
Some private citizens can get a permit to carry a pistol on them if they can show a real need for one.
A gun collector or museum might be able to get a permit to own one.
A museum might even be able to get a permit to have banned weapons on display, but they might need to be made unworkable.

Usually regular people find the paperwork to get a permit for a restricted weapon is so much of a pain that people don't bother doing it.

The thing is that it is not like USA here.
Pistols are relatively rare here compared to the USA where everybody and their dog owns at least one.

Besides, if you are walking in the woods with your rifle in your hand why would you want to put it down and unholster a pistol if a bear is coming at you?
Wouldn't you just shoot it with the rifle?

When I say "Going into bear country" I mean into the specific areas where the bears really are. Places like along salmon rivers, or the town dump.
In those places a person would likely want to have a good rifle or shotgun handy and a partner backing them up with another one.
(12 gauge with slugs or 30-30 caliber and up make a lot of sense then)



Edited by scafool (08/27/09 12:41 PM)
Edit Reason: grammar
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#180584 - 08/27/09 01:36 PM Re: Film-Maker Airlifted Dying of Starvation [Re: scafool]
NobodySpecial Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 197
Most of Western Canada is bear country.
You don't generally carry a gun for safety, Black bears are not likely to attack and even grizzlies would prefer to run away.
You can get a license to hunt black bears with a gun or a bow.

It's not generally thought that the safety on the Grouse Grind would be improved by 5000 hikers all carrying rifles.

Polar bears are different - if you are outside in polar bear country you need to have a gun - and ideally somebody with you with a gun who knows what they are doing!
Legally you can't have a gun in a national park - so there is a loophole where Inuit guides are allowed guns.

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#180588 - 08/27/09 02:07 PM Re: Film-Maker Airlifted Dying of Starvation [Re: NobodySpecial]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Originally Posted By: NobodySpecial
Most of Western Canada is bear country.....



Just a couple of points to be cautious about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America

A good book on the subject of bear attacks
http://www.amazon.com/Bear-Attacks-Causes-Avoidance-revised/dp/158574557X

BC parks advice about bears
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/bcparks/explore/misc/bears/bearsaf.html

Alaska's advice about bears
http://www.wildlife.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=bears.bearfax

Points to note are:
Alaska allows park visitors to carry gun while in Canada they are not allowed or must be sealed by the park rangers.

Alaska's department of Fish and Game recommends rifles or 12 gauge shotguns over pistols.

Even in the parks there are certain places bears tend to be much more than other places. Garbage draws bears just like it draws flies.



Edited by scafool (08/27/09 02:36 PM)
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#180590 - 08/27/09 02:51 PM Re: Film-Maker Airlifted Dying of Starvation [Re: scafool]
BrianB Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 99
On the third hand, he had a can of bear spray. I saw that on one of the vids where he was getting ready to pack up his camp and going over his gear.

For me, this brings his firearms choices into question. While a shotgun loaded with slugs is commonly carried for bear defense, when did he plan to employ it? If the bear's close enough that the bear spray has failed, he'd be in close combat with a bear. A heavy caliber revolver would be better suited for use while being chewed on. Or, maybe the bear spray was supposed to be a backup to the shotgun?

I'm not sure what the thought process was. He was carrying a ton of other dead weight. I'd think he'd be better served by a good packable .22LR like a Marlin 39 or Browning auto for food procurement, and ditching either the rifle or shotgun, or possibly both.



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#180593 - 08/27/09 03:18 PM Re: Film-Maker Airlifted Dying of Starvation [Re: scafool]
GoatRider Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 835
Loc: Maple Grove, MN
Originally Posted By: scafool

I think this puts it in perspective. All fatal bear attacks in North America in over a century can be listed on a single web page, that's not even very long. Try that with fatal auto accidents. I don't think my hard drive is big enough.
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#180594 - 08/27/09 03:28 PM Re: Film-Maker Airlifted Dying of Starvation [Re: GoatRider]
Todd W Offline
Product Tester
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 1928
Loc: Mountains of CA
I understand you don't need a gun to go for a hike or camp but if I was alone like him again I'd sure as heck have one wink

I've camped in bear country, I've had them brush up against my tent, I've heard them when I was in camp grounds busting into the trash cans, I've taken their picture in the front of my house... I live in bear country.

It's kind of ironic because this site is about being "prepared" and while statistically bear attacks are rare, and most brown bears run when you yell at them or make commotion (i've seen this first hand) I still would rather be prepared and have a firearm with me wink and that's just how I`m going to end the argument about carrying or not in bear country.

I stock extra water and food in case the power goes out for a long period of time and I can't get to town.. statistically this may have happened less times in the last 100 years than bear attacks but I still prepare to live through it.


Edited by Todd W (08/27/09 03:29 PM)
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#180595 - 08/27/09 03:41 PM Re: Film-Maker Airlifted Dying of Starvation [Re: GoatRider]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Your comment about the ratio of bear attacks to auto accidents is a nonsequitor.
There are far more opportunities for people and cars to interact.
There are very few auto crashes deep in the woods.
There are very few bear attacks on the highways around major cities.

The list is not quite complete, but there are other points about it that are more interesting.

What I found interesting was how many of the listed bear attacks were recent instead of old.
So long as bears and people are kept away from each other they can't kill each other.

Maybe another reason the attacks seem more frequent is that more people are going where the bears are now. Many more people are in areas that used to be isolated.

It might also be that in the old days when people got eaten they were just counted as lost but now we go looking for lost people and find ones the bears decided to eat.

We also throw away far more trash in convenient dumps for the bears. Bears love eating garbage and being in the dump puts them into close contact with us.

Edit: If you go into the woods and camp on a bear trail then you are right in the middle of their highway. If you cook up a delicious meal of sweet and greasy high calorie food you are baiting the bear right to you.
If the bear tries to eat your food it is just doing what bears do.
It is now the bears food in the bear's mind!
If it is eating its food and you try chasing it away it might defend its food from you.
When it realizes how weak you are it might decide you are its food too.

I am not trying to make it seem like the woods are jammed right full of hungry bears anxiously awaiting their chance to devour human flesh.
That idea would be as inaccurate as the Disneyland view that all bears are harmless, playful, friendly, Gentle Ben type creatures or like Yogi Bear.

Neither view is accurate or realistic.

Bears can, and on occasion, do eat people.
Not every bear hunts humans, most bears find humans scary.
But bears are individuals and you can never be sure what any one of them will do at any time.

Try to resist demonizing or bambifying the bears. The bears are just bears.
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#180596 - 08/27/09 03:43 PM Re: Film-Maker Airlifted Dying of Starvation [Re: Todd W]
BrianB Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 99
I think that's a good point. We prepare for when we're on the wrong end of that statistical data, not for when everything is OK.

Spray is more effective than a firearm, provided the wind favors you and you aren't in a heavy rain. I'd think having both is prudent. And, of course training with them to carry and deploy them effectively.

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#180599 - 08/27/09 04:20 PM Re: Film-Maker Airlifted Dying of Starvation [Re: BrianB]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Quote:
...provided the wind favors you and you aren't in a heavy rain...


All true.
It also has to be where you can get to it real fast.
If it is in your pack or under heavy clothes on your belt you can't reach it in time.
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#180600 - 08/27/09 04:40 PM Re: Film-Maker Airlifted Dying of Starvation [Re: ]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
"I got respect for anyone who can go into the wild alone even if they're not properly equipped."

I don't.

Would this guy have done all this, even for just cash money, if he knew there were no fly-overs, no one picking up his videos, no Twitter, no one watching for him?

Try this: "I'm a college student and I'm going into the White Mountains of NH. I'm dressed in shorts, tank top and flip-flops, and I don't think I'll need more than that, even though it is late fall, as it's nice and sunny today. I'm carrying a 16-oz bottle of water and a granola bar. My cell phone doesn't get a signal here, but I'll take it with me in case it works farther up the mountains. I also have a PLB, so even if I do get into trouble, someone will come and get me."

Just because this fool had someone else paying the bill and backing him up didn't make him any smarter than thousands of other dorks who depend on SAR to get them out of trouble.


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