I keep a sleeping bag in my van (or two if traveling long distance with my wife). Since I use a wheelchair, my van is my plan if I get stranded; meaning, I plan on staying with it until the cavalry arrives. Currently I have a cheap Coleman that isn't very warm ... pretty much an indoor bag. It gets cold in NE Ohio so I'm looking to upgrade. I have very little camping experience but I've read that both down and synthetic bags should only be stored compressed for short periods of time because they'll lose their loft and, thus, some warmth. I'm only interested in a synthetic bag and I would compress it to fit in my mini-van with all my other stuff.

Any advice on the type of synthetic bag or long-term compressed storage (or other options)? Thanks.

I suppose I should be more specific with my question ... assuming I compress a synthetic sleeping bag - how much warmth would I lose and is there a synthetic material that's less affected by long-term compression?

I just use a new (made 27 years ago) British Army 58 Pattern feather Down sleeping bag for vehicle use.



It comes with a non pearmeable water proof base and can be used without a sleeping pad and is rated for -10C. The 58 pattern bag is also reasonably priced for the specification matching top end synthetic bags.

If you want something an synthetic again with a centre zip then the Snugpak SF range is compact (for synthetic) and warm for its weight.

I carry multiple fleece blankets. Have you considered storing it uncompressed?either in a large bag or just open on the back seat?

Yes but I'm rapidly running out of cubic feet. I would really prefer to keep the bag as small as posible - otherwise I'll be tempted to take it out when I have a couple people with me - and I know I wouldn't put it back right away. My son has a great bag but unless it's compressed it's just too big for the space I have. I guess I'm basing my thoughts on experience with his bag.

I have a North Face Ember synthetic bag made with Polarguard 3d....
Have had it for years and store it unrolled at the top of the closet. If you are running out of room in the van, perhaps you could keep it unrolled on the very top of yopu other gear, but then you'd have to move it every time you wanted to get something under it. Or just store it compressed for a while, then keep it out for the same amount of time it was compressed. Do you have storage on a roof rack, or storage in a unit that attaches to a trailer hitch/proper trailer?

I've got to be able to get to the bag from inside the van.

I suppose I should be more specific with my question ... assuming I compress a synthetic sleeping bag - how much warmth would I lose and is there a synthetic material that's better suited to long-term compression?

I don't think so much that you lose "warmth," but rather, compress the insulation along the folds, Ie, along the creases where the bag has folded onto itself. Which leads to multiple colder spots, due to the thinner/compressed insulation from the compressed/fold areas.

Also remember, temp ratings on sleeping bags aren't absolute. Each company is a bit different. Some use "comfortable at" ratings, some use "you'll stay alive" ratings, some use "good to this temp if you wear a base layer when in the bag" mentality.

OH gets chilly. I'd look at least for a 20 degree bag. Ideally -10 or so, since it rarely gets that cold.

As for storing it, have you thought of a box? Even a 2x2ft box may be OK - it's not "compressed" in its bag, but rather just "cramped." You shouldn't lose too much loft that way. Another option perhaps is stuffing it under a bench seat, if your van still has one (I'm guessing if anything, it's in the far back so your wheelchair can get in).

I like the idea of storing it in a box - should have thought of that. I don't have a bench seat (I've removed a couple of seats - one each in the middle and back rows - to make room for my chair and other stuff). Thanks.

I see what your Wheels and MDianna is right; a bag in a stuff sack doesn't lose warmth per se, but the insulation quality is diminished because the stuffing clumps together causing cold spots.

With your unique situation and desire to stay put in the van have you considered a blanket system? I have no idea the actual warmth property's a GI wool blanket (et al) but they take up little space in the van and can keep someone quite warm. Add a lambs wool layer to sit on and you could stay quite warm.

BenJammin mentioned a few months ago some quilt/bag he uses that has some waterproofing qualities. I remember looking at the link but it was too heavy for what I wanted. It may be great for you.

The maker of Wiggy's sleeping bags claims his bags suffer no loss of loft/warmth from compression, and even offers a vacuum packed option, or used to, anyway.

"The Lamilite is an unbounded, silicone-coated continuous filament fiber. This is inside and cannot be seen. The silicone coating gives the fiber two very desirable properties. The first is “antistatic” which allows the fibers to perpetually repel each other regardless of how tightly the fibers are packed against each other (such as compacting in a stuff sack). The loft always returns after removing our sleeping bag from the stuff sack. As an example, one of our Ultima Thule sleeping bags was compacted under 20 tons of pressure. It was blister packed in two poly bags the size of 14 1/2” x 9 1/2” x 2 3/4”. After four days it was opened and in one hour, without assistance, 90% of its loft returned. A Lamilite insulated sleeping bag is the only synthetic bag ever put through this test that returned to its original loft. Not even a down bag will return to almost original, actually the down bags deteriorate when vacuum packed. It is for this reason that I guarantee my sleeping bags will never lose their loft. The Alaska National Guard, as part of their survival gear, uses the Ultima Thule. The bags are left in the vacuum package until needed."

Usual disclaimers, never owned one, no connection, etc.

Wheels, I agree with Jeff_M get a Wiggy's bag and ask for a compressed one (explain your situation and I'll bet they can accommodate you)

Usual disclaimers, never owned one, no connection, etc

That's pretty amazing Jeff. I've never heard anyone make that claim before!

I thought bags (at least down) suffered from the process of being compressed/opened rather than while compressed.
As long as you don't crush it repeatedly while compressed I don't think it should suffer too much.

On the topic of sleeping bags - this is a clever idea.
A half insulated (bottom only) bag, since you are likely to have a down jacket in these conditions anyway, you save half the weight of the bag.

http://www.alpkit.com/shop/cart.php?target=product&product_id=16329&category_id=253

ps If you are in the UK (or Europe) alpkit do a small but well thought out range of gear, mostly for climbing/mountaineering that they design/make themselves. (Just a happy customer etc.)

I never noticed much loss of loft on any of the synthetic bags I had. Not even after they were extremely compressed for packing.

Just remember that everything compresses under your body.
Steel is very conductive too, so sleeping in cars is usually very cold.
If you want to stay warm this means more insulation under you than over you. Think of foam or any other padding that does not compress much. Ensolite pads are great. Blankets certainly help. Even cardboard will help in a pinch, so if you store stuff in boxes the box itself is part of the emergency supplies.

Cars also radiate a lot of heat to the night sky. If you have a way to get an aluminized mylar sheet (space blanket) over you it will help a bit. They are not great for insulation against convection or conduction losses but are good against a lot of the radiation losses.
You lose a lot of heat to radiation out the windows and you lose heat out the windows to convection and conduction too.
Covering the windows will help the vehicle stay warmer inside to.
Those folded sun blocker things (cardboard) work to save heat as well as block it out. You know, the ones they sell you for putting inside your windshield to keep your car from baking in the parking lot.

I apologize for the run on answer.

The weakness of synthetic insulation is that it is never quite as effective as top-quality goose down, which is still considered the gold standard. To get even close in terms of insulation performance per unit weight you have to use some pretty high tech and expensive synthetic constructions and you still fall short.

The weakness of down is that it doesn't handle extended exposure to moisture, chemicals or compaction well. All those are real issues for a sleeping bag that is going to spend a lot of time in a vehicle. Inexpensive synthetics are pretty good around water, chemicals and they can recover from being compacted fairly well.

While synthetics fall short in insulation performance per unit weight weight itself isn't a critical issue for a bag kept in a vehicle. IMO the ability to stand up reasonably well to compaction, moisture (say from a blown window seal) and chemicals makes synthetic the better choice. Better to have something that is a little less efficient but which you can count on than a top-grade unit you can't.

I deliberately let myself get snowed in at 11,000' in my Jeep during one September outing. Was actually a controlled experiment for me.

Had an air mattress, 2 foam pads, 2 sleeping bags and lots of warm clothes.

Cracked the windows for a little ventilation and waited out 2 snowy days . Final night was below zero because the clouds cleared around midnight.

Ice on the outside of the jeep from the snow. Ice on the inside from the condensation. Had to wait for the sunshine to warm things up before I could see out.

One of the bags I used is riding in my newest Jeep as my just-in-case bag. But it was cold at 35F when I bought it in 1983 :-)
I like to have 2 bags when actually camping. More flexible and redundancy is a good thing for assured sleep.

Wheels, I actually have some decent experience with this. I have a 0* synthetic North Face bag that I keep compressed when stored (lets say 11 months out of the year, conservatively). I havent experienced any noticeable drop in performance. The deal with synthetics being compressed for too long is that the insulation material can crimp. However, if you remain with the van, or in another sheltered area, it wouldnt be noticeable. And, it takes years for the fibers to "remember" the crimping. Overall, in my opinion, it isnt something to worry about. Down is a different issue; you spend easily twice as much on a quality down bag, and every little thing you can do to extend its life is worth it.

I would recommend a Kelty synthetic bag. They are inexpensive, and work quite well. Hope this info helps!!

I keep my ECWS sleeping bags in their stuff bags, does that mean they will lose their effectiveness over time? The main reason I do this is that there are three bags in one, and it makes it easier to grap and go should I need to leave in a hurry. My ultimate goal is to have my equipment in a state where it will not take me hours to get everyting together. I am aiming for a "grap and go status".

Scafool touched on this, but I want to expand...

A van is a large area to keep warm without the aid of a heat source. Heat sources all produce differing risks from CO, CO2, fire, et.al.

Insulating the interior of the van will be important.

I am sure everyone has seen the windshield sun visors that are made from what looks like mylar coated bubble wrap. That product is know by the trade name Reflectix, and is commonly used as a radiant barrier in construction retrofits on single family homes. I use it in the windows of my RV when it is in storage, and it drops the inside temps by about 20 degrees F. It stands to reason that one could buy a roll of this material and pre-cut insulation for a vehicle. One could insulate the interior of the van in an emergency, creating a smaller area to heat at the same time.

I know that once I take delivery of my new truck I will be cutting panels of the stuff, labeling them and storing them for use in just such a possible emergency while I am touring Canada this winter.

This product also works well as a field expedient sleep system when combined with duct tape to make a "sleeping bag".

All the usual disclaimers, but: I have used this product as it was designed, and in my own designs... Hasn't failed to satisfy me yet.

The conventional wisdom among backpackers is that storing stuffed leads to a loss of loft (insulation thickness) and therefore warmth, over time. the best practice is considered to be storing it flat, under a bed or something. That goes for self-inflating pads, as well. Manufacturers usually advise against storing stuffed.

Backpacking stores, such as REI, sell very roomy and breathable cotton or nylon storage bags big enough to hold a bag without compression. That's what I use for my "good" bags, with the appropriate stuff sack inside. A cheapo bag stays stuffed and in the car over winter.

My team keeps our gov't issue bags (warm and intermediate) and bivi sacks stuffed and stacked in shipping boxes, ready for deployment. I've never used them in cold, but they seem all right. If your bugout will be by car, maybe the storage bags are good enough to grab'n'go until you have a chance to stuff 'em?

Thanks, Jeff. I apprecaite the info. This is something I would have never thought of. Then again, that's why I came to this forum, to learn.

Now, I keep the three bags that come with the ECWS (military issue) put together within each other. If I were to lay them out flat as you have suggested, would having them all connected within each other for convenience sake also create the same effect, or it is the compression that causes the loss of effectivness to maintain their isnsulative ability?

Like others have said, no problem in putting them in a stuff sack.
Most manufacturers just advise that you should stuff them into the bag instead of trying to fold or roll them. That is so you don't make folds in the same place repeatedly and make the quilting move or thin out at that point by stretching it.

Grab and go is the whole idea behind BOBs (Bail Out Bags) too.
A lot of people end up with their BOB being a scaled down camping kit in a backpack or small duffle bag with a few mods and tweaks.
When you think about it the requirements are pretty similar.

I read the specs for the concrete slab insulation.
I think I just possibly found a new ground sheet for winter camping.

Using a stuff sack is still valuable, but you don't have to use either the stuff sack that came with the bag or the smallest one possible. Get a larger stuff sack and stuff it in more loosely. That would be better than a box (more adjustable) unless the box serves some other useful purpose (table?).

Sue

I would think the weight of the bags, laid out flat, wouldn't inflict much compression on each other. My understanding is that it is compression that is alleged to reduce loft eventually.

Many thanks to all so far. Lots of solid info and advice. I'll probably go with buying an inexpensive zero degree synthetic and leave it compressed in my van when the weather might be cold. In summer I'll rely on a couple of blankets I carry all year long and "relax" the sleeping bag(s) - oops, almost left my wife out in the cold ... guess I'll get two.

I recommend a Wiggy's bag because I have the Ultra Light FTRSS system (also Wiggy's sweater and poncho liners). In warm weather, over 40 degF, I use the outer bag. At 40 to 20 degF, I use the inner bag. Below that temperature, I use both. (I would probably get the Super Light FTRSS if I had to do it over again.) Wiggy's bags can be stored compressed, and washed in a washing machine!! Because the bags drape to reduce convective air space, they keep me very warm and comfortable. The bags are expensive and weigh, but they really work for me.

Note: My soon to be ex wife threw my Wiggy's bag in the trash. My son let me know, so I went over around 2am and fished it out of the trash, covered with the the evenings spaghetti dinner. Two washings at the laundry mat, air drying, and they seem as good as ever. Think you could do that with a down sleeping bag?

Spud

Coleman -10 Synthetic @ Wal-Mart. I believe it was 59.99 and for the price it's worked great for me. Leaving it stuffed I have no worries about losing much temp rating since I don't stuff it tiny, and it's cheap to replace years later if this occurs. I've used it for snow camping, and fall/spring camping (unzipped w/blanket).

The last couple days I used this in the 40*s and it was obviously too warm so I unzipped it 100%, and used my thin smartwool blanket to cover me, and adjusted covering of the bag over me under depending how cool or warm I got. Worked great.

-10 Synthetic Coleman + Surplus Wool Blankets = good range, and good when wet

Ace Hardware sells Reflectix 'off the roll', by the foot. Just ask at the store where its at. FYI buy a roll of reflective foil tape to seam seal. It looks like a roll of tin foil duct tape.

Synthetic insulation permanently loses some loft in the first tight stuffing. Some ultralight bag companies ship their bags
unstuffed from the factory so you can avoid this.

What really kills synthetics is high heat. They really shrink
up if dried too hot. Tumble on air or hang dry to keep loft.

Down bags will last forever. My wife still uses a REI down bag
from the 50's. It was rated to zero then and still is good
for that temperature despite many washings and years of use
during her outward bound career. Synthetics on the other hand
tend to need replacing each year if used that hard. Wiggy's
included.

That said, for a car bag I would use a synthetic bag for it's
quick drying ability and for the low expense. I would store it in a duffle larger than the stuffsack that comes with it.