Looking up something completely different, isn't that how the web works most times, I came across an article that draws a question about how I have sometimes used Ibuprofen.

I don't do it often but if I'm getting ready to get a good chunk of exercise or go on a tough hike I would sometimes dose myself with the intention of getting the jump on any pain and inflammation.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/01/phys-ed-does-ibuprofen-help-or-hurt-during-exercise/

Makes me think maybe I need to cut out the dosing before and during exercise and limit myself to use when I have existing issues. I figured quite a few of you might be doing the same and might want to know. Something to consider.

Well that is very interesting - although it is only one study. I have been known to tkae ibuprofen per-exercise myself, although not regularly.

i wonder if there have been any studies with tylenol/acetaminophen.

Acetaminophen is currently under investigation, it's not exactly good for you

I stopped taking IBuprofen because it hurt my stomach... but it was the only thing that worked OTC for inflammation in my back, arm, wrist, etc... I got prescribed diclofenc (I believe) which is a once a day if I remember and is not supposed to be so bad but it also isn't as good it seems.

Most chemicals it seems are evil

Yes this is new evidence on an old fact. Its been known for years that Ibuprofen causes damage to the kidneys. I was first made aware of this in the late 1980's early 1990's from a Army Doc, full of slides and cadaver photos.

My business is in the health industry and I am an endurance athlete so I long kept an eye on this ongoing issue. Plus now I have damaged kidneys, so Ibuprofen is forbidden on doctors orders, because yes, he told me they damage kidneys. He recommended acetaminophen, which is also supported by endurance event coordinators and hospitals. I do not believe they even dispense ibuprofen at hospitals.

Recently, this year, a study came out that showed acetaminophen causes damage to the liver. Serious damage. Which I remember clearly b/c I can't take Advil and now it looks like I can't take Tylenol, b/c my race injury caused both kidney and liver failure.

If you are taking meds to prevent inflammation and pain from over-exercising, why are you pushing yourself that hard? If you're out of condition, extend yourself gradually.

The vet I used to work for said foolish horse owners would buy Bute (Butazolidin) to get rid of a limp from injury or overexertion in their horses. He said if an animal (esp one that weighs close to half a ton) is limping, it NEEDS to limp to take the strain off the source of pain. Removing the pain will cause the animal to walk/trot/run on a leg that should be resting. He said they needed to correct their priorities.

I suspect the same can be said of people.

Testosterone poisoning is not a good reason. (Sorry, but it's true.)

Sue

That's largely true though on the other hand, you have to understand it's very much a no pain, no gain thing. I've done some tough workouts in my time, had my share of sweat, pain, occasional vomiting and nearly passing out. There were days when I was so sore I could barely move out of bed. I'm a little older and wiser (though hopefully not lazier?? lol) now but even back in my crazy days I was never taking any preventative meds on a regular basis.

I don't care what Ibuprofen does to you after a while. IME, meds, even theoretically harmless ones, should be taken only when really necessary. Taking something like Ibuprofen all the time just can't be good for your system. Or Aspirin. I know a bunch of guys who think a little Aspirin every day is great. I'm no doctor but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out it might have some side effects. It's like nicotine and caffeine abuse to get that boost so you can be in overdrive all the time.

But you can't drive a car at 200mph all the time, nor can your body. It's great to push yourself hard, to your limit. However, if you're pushing yourself so hard that you need to even think about taking preventative meds regularly then your limit has been reached and it's time to step back.

Think about it, do you REALLY want maximum overdrive regardless of the cost? If yes, then to hell with Ibuprofen. We've got stuff like amphetamines, cocaine, morphine, steroids, all sorts of painkillers and boosters. But it's a short one-way road. Maybe you should just listen to your body instead.

Thanks for the article Art, I found it very interesting.

I regularly take maximum daily doses of Ibuprofen for knee ligament pain and although I find that it really helps, I am increasingly concerned about any side-effects. I am seeing my doctor for a check-up this afternoon, I will add it to my list of questions for him.

Mike

There are just some things that regardless of how much preparation and periodization of exercise you do, muscle soreness and inflammation, strains, tears, etc will occur.

I can train for a full year for an Ironman and still have all those symptoms while doing a 2.4 mile swim, 112 mile bike and 26.2 mile run.

My heavy Vitamin I. use came in the military when I carried my 80-120 lbs. kit (ruck and LBE) through horrible land conditions for days at a time. We all would easily take 20-30 Advil a day.

Many years ago I mentioned to my father that I had a headache. He asked if I had taken anything for it. I told him, "Yes, I took a couple of aspirin. " He replied, "Do you think you had the headache because your body was low on aspirin? There is some other problem that needs to be fixed."

Good point Dad... Don't treat the symptom, treat the problem.

Ibuprofen can casue kidney damage - severe kidney damage and even death - but noly if taken in massive doses. typically by people with arthritis.

I don't know of any studies indicationg that taking ibuprofen or acetominophen in small amounts - even daily - can cause long term damage.

I'd be interested in seeing any articles contradicting what i just wrote.

Here is a single report on the Tylenol/liver damage article I mentioned from earlier this year. Turns out it was July.

> LINK HERE <

Interesting. Here's a commentary on the above study.

http://www.medicinenet.com/tylenol_liver_damage/article.htm

Are you posting that as a contrary point of view to the my link? (shrug) If you are, so be it. The commentary doesn't refute acetaminophen causes liver damage, it just debates the amounts and conditions.

One damages the kidneys, one damages the liver. So does rabbit punches from Chuck Liddell and so does whiskey.

And from the bottom of page one of that article:
Thus, recommended doses of Tylenol given to healthy subjects for two weeks can cause mild to moderate reversible liver injury. Tylenol, like all other medications should be used cautiously under a doctor's supervision with monitoring of liver enzyme levels.

Not exactly reassuring, but at least there's no mention of endrocrine disruption effects.
-Blast

I'm just presenting it as additional information. I have no "skin in the game" on this.

IMHO any medicine powerful enough to do you much good is going to be powerful enough to do harm if misused.

I have found that Ibuprofen, 200mg, works better for me on joint pain better than any of the other common OTC pain relievers. Also seems to work well for tooth and sinus issues.

I have it on good authority that Acetaminophen can be very toxic to the liver. Chugging down a bottle of extra-strength is a common way of committing suicide. A difficult one to counter seeing as the liver dies and once gone the only option is a transplant. It is a slow, painful and messy way to die.

Related to this, don't use Acetaminophen, Tylenol, to treat a hangover. Alcohol is tough on the liver. Adding the toxic effects on the liver from Acetaminophen can be too much. Livers are tough, they are one of the few organs that can regenerate itself if you don't poison it too much, but there are limits.

Great Tom, keep posting.