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#181162 - 09/02/09 05:34 PM Mental exercise: add to my FAK
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
After building my own FAK for years I used a gift card to buy a stocked store bought med kit for EDC. Money was no object but what was included was considered. Knowing I already have a good deal of medical supplies I can port over, I chose a modest medical kit, the AMK Ultralight .7 and thought I'd pose the question to this forum.

Here is the contents of the AMK. Using the constraints of the pouch size, what would you add if this was your kit. Have some fun.


CONTENTS
2..... Aloksak®
1..... Splinter Picker Tweezers
1..... Duct Tape
3..... Safety Pins
8..... Motrin®
2..... Antihistamine
2..... After Bite® Sting Relief
CPR / BLEEDING ITEMS
2..... Nitrile Examination Gloves
WOUND CARE / BURN / BLISTER
4..... 3X3 Sterile Dressings
4..... 2x2 Sterile Dressings
2..... Non-Adherent Sterile Dressing (3x4)
1..... Conforming Gauze Bandage
3..... Butterfly Closure Bandage
5..... After Cuts & Scrapes® Towelettes
4..... 1x3 Adhesive Bandage
3..... Knuckle Adhesive Bandage
1..... Tape 1" x 10 Yards
1..... Swift Wrap Elastic Bandage
1..... Moleskin (7x4)
1..... Tincture of Benzoin
4..... Antibiotic Ointment

A good mental exercise. Have fun.
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#181167 - 09/02/09 06:17 PM Re: Mental exercise: add to my FAK [Re: comms]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
"Using the constraints of the pouch size"
Aspirin:
For heart attack victims(Myocardial infarction), have them chew 1 tablet for about half a minute and then swallow it. Aspirin prevents blood clotting and can help a heart attack victim. Don't give aspirin if you are trying to control a bleed.
It is unlikely to do any harm if you are wrong.

Sweets:
For diabetics, if they are short of sugar it helps and if they have to much sugar it does no harm to them in first aid.
The sugar can be in candy, granular or liquid form. Syrups or juices are the safest because they are hard to choke on, but
restaurant size packages of granulated sugar or jams are convenient.
(Never even think about giving insulin because it could be lethal, especially if they are slipping into coma. If they have insulin, are concious and need it you may assist them but this is one thing that implied consent does not cover.)
A cheap small watch for timing their pulse and a small pencil+notebook for writing down the time when you checked their vital signs.
(you might want to know how they are changing over time, so you can tell if their condition is getting better or worse.)

Special items for yourself or other people in your party:
This depends upon the medical conditions of your traveling companions. For example a person with serious allergic responses might need an EpiPen.
Related to this are special items for location. You might want a suction cup type snakebite kit in the desert areas. They make pretty small versions of them now.

You might be able to fit a small magnifying glass for splinter hunting, a better set of tweezers and some small bandage scissors in that small bag too.
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#181169 - 09/02/09 06:35 PM Re: Mental exercise: add to my FAK [Re: comms]
Loganenator Offline
Bike guy
Member

Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 151
Loc: Sacramento, CA, USA
- Three feet of rubber tubing.
- A blood coagulator sponge/powder (like celox)
- Electrolyte drink mix powder (like gatorade) for hypoglycemia & hyponatremia
- Sun screen/Insect repellent
- Syringe w/ plastic tip for irrigating wounds (wash out debris)
- Epi-pen (if you can get one)
- Peppy pills (caffeine or similar like vivarin)

I have rubber tubing as a substitute for a tourniquet. They use a similar device when taking blood. It flexes and thus does not completely occlude blood flow (the danger of tourniquets) but the partial constriction reduces blood loss.

Flexible rubber tubing and peppy pills are Cody Lundin tricks for more than just first aid applications. You can also use tubing for: building a sling-shot, as a straw to drink water from small puddle, siphon, water distilling, etc.


Edited by Loganenator (09/02/09 06:37 PM)
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#181170 - 09/02/09 06:42 PM Re: Mental exercise: add to my FAK [Re: Loganenator]
Rodion Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 285
Loc: Israel
Money no object, eh?

Arc AAA, Leatherman Squirt S4, Peanut Lighter and a bunch of cotton balls. How's that for a FAK?

Also since you seem to be going hi tech, a 2" long section of a SAM splint could be nice.
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#181174 - 09/02/09 07:16 PM Re: Mental exercise: add to my FAK [Re: Rodion]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
I disagree on stocking an epipen in your FAK. First you need a prescription to get one, and if you don't have an allergy the supervising doc would have to be a little skewed to give one to you. The only folks I know who stock epipens are WFA trained folks with a known standard of medical care, and they would apply in the field as a last resort. If someone has an allergic reaction, it may be their first time (bad luck) or they have a known allergy, and they should have an epipen on their person, and let you know about it. And unless you get to them late, they should be conscious enough to self-administer. Finally, the whole point of epipen is to temporarily stop the histamine reaction (restricting airway, breathing, swallowing), long enough to adminster antihistamines aka benadryl. Having one or several types of benadryl (liquid or > melt on tongue type) may do better than stocking an epipen, only to have the histamine reaction come back in 20-30 minutes after injection. Best - epipen, followed by benadryl. And always, prepare to evac for better medical care as soon as the person can be moved.

I grok the impulse to have an epipen just in case. I don't hike with people with allergies that require them, if they leave their epipen at home. Its the 11th essential for those so inflicted.

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#181176 - 09/02/09 07:50 PM Re: Mental exercise: add to my FAK [Re: Lono]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
Excellent points, all. Please continue.

For the matter of epi-pen. DW is allergic to Bee's & does carry one as part of her FAK.

I have tubing in my car BOB, didn't consider it for FAK.

Plan on several additional 'single serving' packets from my current FAK. Such as Benadryl, tylenol, pepto, lactaid pills.

I have seriously considered a small irrigation syringe. Any third motions on that?
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#181182 - 09/02/09 08:42 PM Re: Mental exercise: add to my FAK [Re: NightHiker]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
Originally Posted By: NightHiker
3..... Safety Pins Add at least 3 more, make sure they're big enough to help close a laceration if necessary


Ouch - hold on! If we're talking immediate care there's no need to run safety pins through a wound, causing pain and and risking infection. And besides, there are better alternatives - pack a wound kit with steri-strips like this one, http://www.nols.edu/store/product.php?productid=16259&cat=256&bestseller. I guarantee that if you have to close a wound, the wounded person will thank you.

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#181189 - 09/02/09 09:00 PM Re: Mental exercise: add to my FAK [Re: Lono]
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
A good exercise.

Add;

more meds, particularly peto bismols
small light (coin type with off switch taped off)
bic mini-lighter
small folding knife
chap-stick with sunscreen -

Assumed that you carry a tiny bottle of alcohol hand sanitizer elsewhere.

Teacher

PS most of what I use in my kit is ibuprofen and band-aids.

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#181191 - 09/02/09 09:46 PM Re: Mental exercise: add to my FAK [Re: Lono]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
Hey Teacher thanks.

What your describing other than the pepto, is already in a separate EDC kit. Though I think it might be a good idea to include a coin light in my FAK.

@NightHiker. OUTSTANDING.
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#181194 - 09/02/09 10:22 PM Re: Mental exercise: add to my FAK [Re: NightHiker]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
Originally Posted By: NightHiker
Originally Posted By: Lono
Originally Posted By: NightHiker
3..... Safety Pins Add at least 3 more, make sure they're big enough to help close a laceration if necessary


Ouch - hold on! If we're talking immediate care there's no need to run safety pins through a wound, causing pain and and risking infection. And besides, there are better alternatives - pack a wound kit with steri-strips like this one, http://www.nols.edu/store/product.php?productid=16259&cat=256&bestseller. I guarantee that if you have to close a wound, the wounded person will thank you.


You're obviously not in touch with today's pierced and inked society wink

I'm thinking more along the lines of self-care and if Ive got a wound that's bad enough that I'm considering using safety pins to help keep it closed a couple of small puncture wounds are far from the top of my concern list. Personally I keep a couple of packets of 4-0 etilon sutures in my FAK but that's me. Safety pins are excellent multi-taskers anyway.


Whatever floats your boat I guess. If a wound is too big for steri-strips (and duct tape) then I hope to be transported to a hospital before I pull a Rambo to sew it up (which always seemed like a really cool movie scene to me). I would pack the wound with gauze before I attempt to close a wound that big.

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#181199 - 09/02/09 11:32 PM Re: Mental exercise: add to my FAK [Re: Lono]
UTAlumnus Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 1019
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol
Safety pins? They're good for emergency fly repair.
For wound closure, I'll stick to the butterfly/steri-strips.

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#181200 - 09/02/09 11:45 PM Re: Mental exercise: add to my FAK [Re: UTAlumnus]
yelp Offline
Member

Registered: 06/04/08
Posts: 172
Loc: Colorado
Safety pins - excellent multipurpose item.

Wound closure? From my very limited understanding, that's not something you want to do in the field; seals the wound up and lets it fester. Better to let it drain after you've stopped bleeding (overlap that avulsion with the host limb; don't just lay it back in place).

But if closing a wound is something you want to do, tape (and a lot of it with 4x4s) will do nearly as well as a suture kit.
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(posting this as someone that has unintentionally done a bunch of stupid stuff in the past and will again...)

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#181201 - 09/02/09 11:51 PM Re: Mental exercise: add to my FAK [Re: yelp]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
Well that's an interesting point and maybe I am hijacking my own thread with this question (if so I will put on track later) but...

wouldn't Quick Clot be a viable means of closing off a wound that in the past would require safety pin?
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#181202 - 09/02/09 11:56 PM Re: Mental exercise: add to my FAK [Re: UTAlumnus]
aloha Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1059
Loc: Hawaii, USA
The most serious wound I have had to administer first aid for when camping was an almost severed finger. Gauze and adhesive bandages kept everything intact until he was able to get to the emergency room.

I think having something for shock would have been good as I think he was about to go into shock. After getting him seated I gave him water while I wrapped everything up and talked to distract him. If I had coffee ready, I would have given him some.

What do you guys suggest to have in a FAK for treating shock? I know at that point, he wasn't thinking straight. I am thinking if I was by myself, what could I take to help keep my head together. Caffeine tablets?
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#181211 - 09/03/09 02:02 AM Re: Mental exercise: add to my FAK [Re: aloha]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Aloha, this answer might be on a tangent from Comms' thread starter question but I really wanted to respond to your question with something.

Other than having blankets there is not much you would specifically have in a FAK to treat shock.

Shock is usually a result of circulation problems.
Either heart failure or a serious bleed.
Shock can also be caused by allergic reactions or low blood sugar (diabetic shock)
Shock is actually your body dying from lack of blood sugar and O2

If you had O2 and a way to administer it that might help.
Reduced blood flow means reduced O2 to the brain and body.
If I had the training to administer oxygen I might do that, but I am not trained for giving O2.
Gas cylinders are big and heavy so the chances that I would have one with me are very slim too.

Fainting is a bit like shock but is not really shock because it is self limited and it usually just temporarily affects the brain.

If they are going into shock from blood loss the first thing is to stop the bleed.
If they have already lost a lot of blood you could give them more blood through an IV, if you were trained for that.
I am not trained for anything like that.
I am not about to drag IV supplies around with me all the time either,
even if I had the training.


Fear produces adrenalin.
If the shock is from adrenalin (the fight or flight response) you certainly don't need to be giving them more stimulants like coffee or tobacco.
Brandy is not an answer either because alcohol interferes with the circulatory system too.



I stole this from a random internet page. It seems to be an article published by a vitamin seller.
http://www.vitaminsuk.com/index.php?main_page=articles&topic=firstaidforshock
Quote:
First Aid for Shock



Causes of Shock

Recognition of Shock

Treatment of Shock



The circulatory system distributes blood to all parts of the body, carrying oxygen and nutrients to the tissues. If the circulatory system fails, and insufficient oxygen reaches the tissues, the medical condition known as shock occurs. If the condition is not treated quickly, the vital organs can fail, ultimately causing death. Shock is made worse by fear and pain.


Causes of Shock



Shock can develop when the heart pump fails to work properly, causing a reduction in the pressure of the circulating blood. The most common cause of this type of shock is a heart attack.



Shock can develop as a result of a reduction in the volume of fluid circulating around the body. The most common examples of this are external or internal bleeding, or loss of other bodily fluids through severe diarrhoea, vomiting, or burns. The blood supply is diverted from the surface to the core of the body. The main symptoms and signs of shock relate to such redistribution of the circulation.


Recognition of Shock



Initially, a flow of adrenaline causes:



* A rapid pulse.
* Pale, grey skin, especially inside the lips. If pressure is applied to a fingernail or earlobe, it will not regain its colour immediately.
* Sweating, and cold, clammy skin (sweat does not evaporate).



As shock develops, there may be:



* Weakness and giddiness.
* Nausea, and sometimes vomiting.
* Thirst.
* Rapid, shallow breathing.
* A weak, ‘thready’ pulse. When the pulse at the wrist disappears, fluid loss may equal half the blood volume.



As the oxygen supply to the brain weakens:



* The casualty may become restless, anxious and aggressive.
* The casualty may yawn and gasp for air (‘air hunger’).
* The casualty will eventually become unconscious.
* Finally, the heart will stop.


Treatment of Shock



DO NOT let the casualty move unnecessarily, eat, drink, or smoke.



DO NOT leave the casualty unattended. Reassure the casualty constantly.



* Treat any cause of shock which can be remedied (such as external bleeding).
* Lay the casualty down, keeping the head low.
* Raise and support the casualty’s legs (be careful if suspecting a fracture).
* Loosen tight clothing, braces, straps or belts, in order to reduce constriction at the neck, chest and waist.
* Insulate the casualty from cold, both above and below. Contact the emergency service.
* Check and record breathing, pulse and level of response. Be prepared to resuscitate the casualty if necessary.



This other article from
http://www.emedicinehealth.com/shock/article_em.htm
talks about shock and how to treat it in much more depth.
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#181222 - 09/03/09 04:20 AM Re: Mental exercise: add to my FAK [Re: scafool]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
Thanks scafool, yes lets get back on track.

PLEASE REVIEW THE FIRST MESSAGE OF THIS THREAD. IT IS A LIST OF ITEMS IN MY AMK ULTRALIGHT .7 MED KIT. I BOUGHT THIS WITH THE INTENTION OF ADDING OR REPLACING PIECES OF THIS KIT WITH OTHER FAK ITEMS I MAY ALREADY HAVE.

LOOKING AT THE CONTENTS, AND KEEPING THE ORIGINAL PACKAGING, WHAT WOULD YOU ADD?

Its a mental exercise. Imagine you're looking at several kits in a store, comparing all the benefits of one over the other and knowing what you know from experience.
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#181229 - 09/03/09 09:04 AM Re: Mental exercise: add to my FAK [Re: NightHiker]
JIM Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 1032
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: NightHiker
Originally Posted By: comms
I have seriously considered a small irrigation syringe. Any third motions on that?

Not a bad thing if you've got the room for it("small" is problematic though, anything less than 20ml is a PIA to try to flush a wound with - just my opinion, YMMV). You can also use a water bladder - a good steady squeeze on the bladder generates adequate pressure for flushing



You'll definately want a quart- or gallon ziplock bag instead of an irrigation syringe.

Ziplock can also be used for:

- occlusive dressing
- storing severed finger, tooth, etc.
- irrigation of wounds, eye.
- cooling burns
- storing unused, but opened dressings
- cooling sprains
- general waterproofing of items
- gear repair

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#181254 - 09/03/09 03:08 PM Re: Mental exercise: add to my FAK [Re: NightHiker]
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
You can always use a safety pin to secure the toungue in establishing an airway:

Quote:
A temporary airway can be established by attaching the anterior aspect of the victim’s
tongue to the lower lip with two safety pins. An alternative to puncturing the lower lip is to
pass a string through the safety pins and hold traction on the tongue by securing the other end
to the victim’s shirt button or jacket zipper.


from:

Backcountry 911: 1,001 Uses for Duct Tape and Safety Pins

Pete

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#181263 - 09/03/09 03:56 PM Re: Mental exercise: add to my FAK [Re: NightHiker]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
No actually this is good. The kit comes with 3 small safety pins which I think I will switch out for the larger diaper safety pins.

I read that first piece about the use of them for open airways and thought, "No way", then read you actually saw it. Crazy.

NOW BACK TO THE MODIFICATION OF MY AMK ULTRALIGHT MED KIT.
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#181308 - 09/03/09 07:49 PM Re: Mental exercise: add to my FAK [Re: NightHiker]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
Originally Posted By: NightHiker
Originally Posted By: Lono
Originally Posted By: NightHiker
You're obviously not in touch with today's pierced and inked society wink

I'm thinking more along the lines of self-care and if Ive got a wound that's bad enough that I'm considering using safety pins to help keep it closed a couple of small puncture wounds are far from the top of my concern list. Personally I keep a couple of packets of 4-0 etilon sutures in my FAK but that's me. Safety pins are excellent multi-taskers anyway.


Whatever floats your boat I guess. If a wound is too big for steri-strips (and duct tape) then I hope to be transported to a hospital before I pull a Rambo to sew it up (which always seemed like a really cool movie scene to me). I would pack the wound with gauze before I attempt to close a wound that big.


Back to the gaping wound situation - if you're within 24 (maybe 36) hours of getting to medical attention packing is the way to go but if your severely injured and have to wait a day or two before SAR is going to start looking for you.... Personally, when I'm in the backcountry I don't carry enough medical supplies for extended wound care and daily dressing changes.

Good, thought provoking thread


That's a good explanation. I still disagree, I generally hike with enough dressings to change (a single major wound) for a few days, and if I'm with Scouts between us we have enough for Armageddon. Ultralight FAK is not in my DNA, in terms of essentials its the last place I will economize for weight, as it will remove treatable scenarios. If we hike in N days from help, I need to be able to treat a wound for at least N+2 days.

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#181379 - 09/04/09 02:53 PM Re: Mental exercise: add to my FAK [Re: NightHiker]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
Yes, please remember this is an FAK that I will carry with me daily.

When I go into the boonies, it will be the centerpiece of my FAK but will have many more components based on amount of people and their gear.
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