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#181032 - 09/01/09 12:43 PM Re: Scenario: trapped by wildfire, how to survive? [Re: dweste]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Originally Posted By: dweste
[quote=JohnE]If you've got 24 hours to prepare, why aren't you leaving?

Unless you can build a fireproof shelter within 24 hours, if the fire is big enough it will kill you, or burn you so badly you'll wish it had killed you.[quote]

For educational purposes the scenario is that you cannot escape. The question becomes, how can you build a fireproof shelter?
So let's assume that for some reason with 24 hours to play with I can't evade an oncoming firestorm and need to find or make shelter. IF (that's the big if) I saw the terrain and realized there was a piece where I could control a fire and not kill myself in the process or add to the coming firestorm, I'd burn off an area in which to make my stand. Then, not finding a cave, I'd dig down, deep (shovel) and cover the top with timbers (axe) and cover that with as much dirt as I took out of the ground. So I'd have a hopefully fireproof bunker. Then, as the fire approached, I'd set a backfire to remove even more fuel directly in the path of the fire. Then I'd scramble into the bunker as the fire did what fires do.

While sitting in my little dirt covered shelter (hoping it doesn't turn out to be a little one man oven) I should have time to think about what I'll say when the fire investigators ask me: if I had so much time to build such a great shelter, why did I not leave? Good question.

_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#181062 - 09/01/09 04:23 PM Re: Scenario: trapped by wildfire, how to survive? [Re: NightHiker]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
If this is just a grass fire, I suppose you could take a deep breath and run through the flames into the already-burned area.

Where trees and underbrush are burning, which could probably be thought of as a mini-firestorm, you aren't just dealing with the radiant heat from the fire, but the high ambient temperature. A true firestorm can create temps of 2000F (yes, that's two thousand degrees).

The few people I have heard of that survived conditions like these were a few people in Australia who had underground shelters just for that purpose. Their shelters were pretty highly insulated (thickly covered with soil), and had a stone, concrete or mud brick dogleg in front of the door to shield it from the radiant heat that would have set the wooden door on fire. (I suspect that a metal door, while more fireproof, would also transfer heat into the shelter.) It has been recommended that if you might have to depend on a shelter like this, to build it in an open area, and keep the grass around it very short.

But realistically, depending on what you are carrying with you, in a good hot fire, you're probably going to die without a serious high-mass shelter around you.

Given 24 hours, you'd best pack your gear and head out of the area.

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#181064 - 09/01/09 04:33 PM Re: Scenario: trapped by wildfire, how to survive? [Re: Susan]
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
How about draining an in-ground pool (if you have one or live near one) and cover it the best way you can with non- or low flammable materials for protection?

Pete

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#181067 - 09/01/09 04:55 PM Re: Scenario: trapped by wildfire, how to survive? [Re: paramedicpete]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
FIRE SHELTER SURVIVAL
Do's and Don'ts That Could Save Your Life

http://wildfirenews.com/fire/articles/ted.html
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#181068 - 09/01/09 04:56 PM Re: Scenario: trapped by wildfire, how to survive? [Re: paramedicpete]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA
if you have ever see the aftermath of a real forest fire you will know that getting away is your only real chance to survive.the heat is so intense it cracks rocks and burns the earth to the bedrock.maybe digging in to escape a fast moving grass fire will let you walk away burned but that's about it.

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#181084 - 09/01/09 07:03 PM Re: Scenario: trapped by wildfire, how to survive? [Re: NightHiker]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
So is an approved fire shelter available for sale to the general public?

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#181086 - 09/01/09 07:12 PM Re: Scenario: trapped by wildfire, how to survive? [Re: dweste]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
New Generation: Wildland Fire Shelter

Fire Shelter with Case, New Generation

Not affiliated with either company, links are the result of a simple google search.


Edited by Russ (09/01/09 07:18 PM)
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#181090 - 09/01/09 07:34 PM Re: Scenario: trapped by wildfire, how to survive? [Re: Russ]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Roughly $400 and another 5 pounds of gear.

Edit: I wonder if, like high end bear canisters, these will be rentable?


Edited by dweste (09/01/09 07:42 PM)

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#181095 - 09/01/09 09:19 PM Re: Scenario: trapped by wildfire, how to survive? [Re: dweste]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Understand that the fire shelters are only to protect in an emergency from fire that are traveling fast and pass over the firefighters quickly.

For the idea of digging a hole in the ground I am not sure how deep or how much dirt has to be piled on top of them.
I do understand that the entry to it needs to have a door capable of resisting the heat or a bend to prevent directly radiated heat from cooking you inside of it like an oven.

Most of the information on fire bunkers for protection from bush fires (wild fires) is coming from Australia.
They have been doing a lot of work on this because they have had really terrible fires over the past few years.

Here is a sample of an article you might find introducing the idea.
http://fireshelterfirebunker.com.au/
A deeper search would get you more in depth article or you could introduce yourself to the Australian Survivalist
http://www.aussurvivalist.com/
and ask them about it too.
They had a really good set of discussions about this last year.

Some of them were even posting on discussions we had right here on this forum about it.

http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=155573&page=1

http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=164777&page=1


Edited by scafool (09/01/09 09:25 PM)
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#181096 - 09/01/09 10:23 PM Re: Scenario: trapped by wildfire, how to survive? [Re: scafool]
KG2V Offline

Veteran

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
Well, depending - I knew someone who's house was pretty much in the middle of a field of shale, excpet for 1 or 2 trees on one side (when I say a FIELD of shale - he ad over 100 yds of bare shale on 3 sides. Of course, he laso had a mid sized Cat dozer, so if I was there, the trees would be gone, I'd dig a DEEP shelter, and work on extending that 100 yd buffer to somethen a tad more. The dozer in the garage came from the fact he used to own a heavy equipment company, and the HUGE empty area was where he used to park a few cranes and the like
_________________________
73 de KG2V
You are what you do when it counts - The Masso
Homepage: http://www.thegallos.com
Blog: http://kg2v.blogspot.com

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