All,

Is anyone here familiar with Leeds area in England? There could be a possiblity that the company I'm currently working for will move us over there.

I've been doing research, a lot of research, in the area and basically i'm divided if I should do the move.

We have two newborn twin boys so schools will be a top priority in a few years.

I'm looking for local knowledge of the place and any pro's or con's... Anything is helpful!

Kris

Your possibly having to move from the Caribbean to Yorkshire, you have my deepest sympathies....

Yeah, the weather isn't looking all that great... averaging > 20 days of rain a month all year long.

It won't be like home as snow is rare there... but if i'm not at work or at home, i'll probably be at a local pub anyways ;-)

No hurricanes. . .

I would watch the ' The League of Gentlemen ' for indepth research into Yorkshire Derbyshire area of North England.

Leeds? I've lived there and it's a terrific place!
Not a parent so can't help you on schools, but it's part of the Leeds-Bradford urban conurbation and only 30 miles from the big city of Manchester. (you have to remember you can fit the whole of England in a corner of Texas) There are bound to be good ones within reach.
Climate is mild. maybe a few days of snow a year usually. You are right next to the Penine range of hills for walking. and surrounded by beautiful countryside. Leeds is small enough to live in the countryside and commute easily to the centre. Northern English are noted for their friendliness.
Leeds has a war museum and Bradford is a film fans mecca with an IMAX screen, museum and plenty of ridiculously cheap good Indian eating places.
You are well sited for transport being on a motorway and main railway route.
Sushi

I've done some work in the UK and have friends who lived near leeds (and now live near me) - and no offense to any UK members - no way I'd move to the UK.

Especially if I had kids who would be of school age in the next 5 years.

Why is that?

From a backpacker's perspective, Leeds seemed a pretty nice place some years ago. Relatively quiet and laid back. And obviously the Royal Armouries museum is a major attraction if you're even remotely interested in arms and armor. I think the kids would love it.

Manchester and Liverpool were different, though. With much of the once thriving industry in ruins both cities were in a state of decay sort of when I was there. Also, an unusual percentage of not quite so friendly people (gangs) in the street. My travelling buddy and I nearly got in a fight in Manchester (we kept a low profile all the time and were never looking for trouble). Liverpool wasn't much better, you could definitely see there was a serious drug problem.

At least that was my experience as an outsider on a brief visit something like 5 years ago. All in all, I'd probably rather live somewhere further south if I could choose freely. Or some place in Scotland. Never mind the weather, that is one of the few places in the world where I really did feel welcome and comfortable.

My maternal grandparents came from Leeds around 1910, so it's probably changed a bit.

The worst private (read: public) schools in Britain are probably better academically than the best public schools here, but the social problems are probably much the same. You might want to consider homeschooling, which is perfectly legal there.

You'll have to give up some of your EDC, though. And from what I read, there is NO 'Castle Law' of any type there. If someone wants to trash your car or your place, there isn't a thing you can do about it. One of my crews (recent ex-military) said Britain is a criminal's dream because you just have to stand there and take it.

Excuse me, but Yorkshire is gorgeous place to live. Plenty of outdoor stuff to do. And you are only a short hop from York City, which is a fabulous place. My wife's family still is in York. I have been to Manchester several times - direct flights from eastern US - was in Manchester a year ago - a fine medium sized city. I haven't spent much time in Leeds - just passed through a few times.

Kris, you and I have corresponded in the past right? You're in Cayman and I used to live in Cayman. I hope to get down to Grand Cayman next April.

Yeah, I think we have chatted in the past...

If i'm still around next April (really doubt that now), beers at royal palms?

It may have been possible that were still fixing up the place after the IRA blew it up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4EoXH1ju_0&feature=related

Also there are currently some pretty bad racial tensions (with a long historical undercurrent) in Northern England especially where traditional working class areas have seen their communities allowed to decay into an underclass (with the introduction of US style free market capitalism from Southern England esp the London financial centre, although Leeds has a large financial centre as well even though it is bankrupt (just like the Edinburgh financial centre) and needed taxpayers money to prop the whole system up) with the far right neofascists getting a foothold in local and national politics i.e. getting elected for the first time. (the BNP policies include repatriation of non white races and they also want to implement the Castle laws and free up gun ownership) The 2005 London tube suicide bombers who apparently were Al Qaeda terrorists came from Leeds.

But perhaps the most shocking lifestyle change would most likely be the shock of actually having to pay direct taxation although National Health Care services are a major plus (depending of course what income taxation band your in).

As for the criminal/under class being a problem in England and the UK, that probably wouldn't be much of a problem since the Caymen Islands is essentially a criminal operation in its own right (these criminals, er I mean free market capitalists who don't have their accounts audited for their pharmaceutical distribution operations in Liverpool, London, Manchester, Los Angeles, Philadelphia etc, know what Port to have with their lamb cutlets).

The Harrogate and Knaresborough areas to the north of Leeds may as well be a million miles away from the deprivation of the inner cities of Liverpool and Manchester. But that is just the way it is nowadays.

Moving to Northern England in the midst of a bad economic recession from the sunny climbs of the Carribean despite the Hurricanes would probably not be a very good move but that would depend a lot on empolyment income. Being wealthy in the UK is'nt going to be as good as being wealthy in the US, but being poor isn't going to as bad either although the politicians in the England have for the last 30 years have tried their damnedest to encourage the wealth gap between rich and poor.

The Royal Palms? For sure! Must have been rebuilt. I used to go diving with people from the Palms, but the last time I was on Cayman - on a rugby tour from NY, over 20 yrs ago - it had burnt down.

I just googled "Cayman Island pubs" and some of the ones I remember are still operating. Plus Eden Rock Divers, still owned by a friend of mine (rugby player) from way back when I lived there.

To the main point, you'll probably enjoy living in Yorkshire, if that's where you end up.

Yeah, Royal Palms got rebuilt again after Ivan... Biggest disappointment was Naked Fish... Ivan killed them and someone built a fancy condo complex in its spot.

Look up http://www.caymanrestaurants.com/ for the latest pubs and restaurants.

I loved that series!! I rented it from NetFlix. My favorite person was "Mickey" followed closely by the old rocker from the band "Creme Brulee". My favorite scene is when Tubbs and whoever go to London following the railroad tracks just like the snow globe showed. I almost wet myself it was so funny.

the only thing you'll have to change in your EDC is to carry a spyderco uk legal blade not a locking one or one with a blade over 3". Unless you carry a gun which is strictly prohibited. You can shoot some guns on a range.

Everything else in this post is untrue. Is this the same UK we are talking about?

You have a right to use reasonable force to protect your property and self and can make a citizens arrest.


'You'll have to give up some of your EDC, though. And from what I read, there is NO 'Castle Law' of any type there. If someone wants to trash your car or your place, there isn't a thing you can do about it. One of my crews (recent ex-military) said Britain is a criminal's dream because you just have to stand there and take it.'

the only thing you'll have to change in your EDC is to carry a spyderco uk legal blade not a locking one or one with a blade over 3". Unless you carry a gun which is strictly prohibited. You can shoot some guns on a range.

Everything else in this post is untrue. Is this the same UK we are talking about?

You have a right to use reasonable force to protect your property and self and can make a citizens arrest.


'You'll have to give up some of your EDC, though. And from what I read, there is NO 'Castle Law' of any type there. If someone wants to trash your car or your place, there isn't a thing you can do about it. One of my crews (recent ex-military) said Britain is a criminal's dream because you just have to stand there and take it.'

There are loads of good things to be said for Yorkshire, the scenery up on the moors and mountains is truly inspiring. It is as was pointed out earlier close to Gods country, Scotland for you unbelievers out there. Very centrally placed and pretty well serviced by all types of communications.

It is however let down by the weather, the built up area's and the minority of scum-bags that concentrate there. There is an underlying racial undercurrent that has occasionally spilled over into rioting. But to top it off my Mother in Law lives in Yorkshire and she is reason enough for me never to venture south of the border again

By all means work in Leeds but dont live there if you can help it.

Liverpool and Manchester have their bad points, what large cities don't? Not moving to Leeds because there are bad areas in Liverpool; a city 75 miles away, makes no sense.
And the 7/7 bombers came from Leeds, but that is proof itself, it's an unlikely target for terrorists. They didn't bomb Leeds, they went 200 miles to London instead.
Sushi

I know very little about the U.K. and have never been there, but my son was in Scotland sight-seeing and doing Outward Bound Training for 5 weeks this summer. He said the country was very scenic and the people were terrific everything was great, except for the weather. It rained for at least part of every day except two!

He is right now canoeing the Nahanni River in Northwest Territories under nothing but sunshine for the past week; wish I was there.

Mike

The Stone is still wet.!!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/sep/02/skye-summer-rain

My son entered a public speaking contest a few years ago with the topic " Nature's Weather Signs", he ended the talk with an example of the "Weather Rock" and made it quite far in the competition.

He got the idea from a similar stone that hangs in front of this Gun Shop in central Ontario.

Mike

Thanks all for your info. Believe it or not its helping the decision process.

Hi Kris,

I was born and raised in Stoke-on-Trent which is a wee bit south of Leeds. I have friends up there still, not a bad place to be, but given the choice of where you are now and Leeds, I wouldn't even get on the plane.

Schools are very ethnically diverse, your kids may have class's in Hindu, Urdu and or Croatian.

If you rise with the sun, don't count on being on time for work. Grey will be the norm as will the cold relatively speaking.

Transport is a nightmare unless you live close to your work, in which case you'll be miles away from anything else.

I would like to make a mention of salary, really study the package your company is offering, the cost of living in the UK is extortionately high.

Swamp Donkey, did you mean Elwood Epps?
http://www.ellwoodepps.com/

Hi Scafool,

Yes, I shop at Ellwood Epps often and monitor their used gun rack online daily.

The shop has changed a lot since the new owners (the Winkel Family) bought it about 15 years ago. As a kid I remember it as a dark, cluttered place with stacks of guns and equipment, it was terrific. It is now still a great place, but things are more organized and there is a better selection of modern firearms and material. This place is still your classic gunshop, nothing like a big box store.

Sorry to divert your thread about moving to the UK toward gunshops Kris. You live in a beautiful place now, there must be some serious incentives to have you considering moving to the UK?

Mike

No worries... dicussion is dicussion!

And yes to the incentives. Basically, i'd be in darwin's number one position if the verbal offer turns into the official offer and i don't take it.

I'm from Sheffield (Leed's poor relation - watch the beginning of the 'full monty')
Leeds is now pretty much England's second city a lot of banks/finance companies moved there from London.

Like any big city there are areas of crime/poverty/drugs/squalor - but you aren't going to be living in them. There are also lots of areas that look dirty and run-down but are perfectly safe - remember it's been a heavy industry city for 200years and it takes a while for the smoke to wash off. Most of these fine but dirty victorian buildings will have been turned into wine bars / starbucks by now.

Assuming they aren't paying you minimum wage you are going to be living in a small town/village in the countryside north of Leeds. Just lookup tourist pictures of 'North Yorkshire' to see what this is like. Yes it's going to rain more than in the Caribean but there are fewer hurricanes.

Leeds (and Bradford - the city it now joins) have a large Pakistani and Indian community. Most of them are 2nd/3rd generation of people who came to work in the linen industry in the 50s. Assuming they are terrorists is like assuming anyone black in Barbados must be an Uzi carrying LA gangsta.

The main difficulty (especially in smaller villages) is the language - you might have to study "last of the summer wine" unless Rosetta does 'yorkshire for beginners' tapes.

No probs... up for the challenge of language. I work with some people from the north, and lets just say after a few years i'm getting the hang of it and can handle my own. It'll be different if you drop me in the middle of a pub, i'm sure of it!

Thanks for that info NobodySpecial...

Would anyone here recommend any villages? I have an idea for a few, but curious to the rail times from some of the villages to Leeds center.

Wetherby just outside Leeds is nice, Harrogate is upmarket. So is Yorks city centre and it's dripping in history. City walls, castle museum, viking museum, tremendous abbey....
Saltaire is an old mill town where the mill is now a trendy department store/art display. Hebden Bridge is a bizarre mixture of an old mill town, the hippies descended on in the 60s and the trendies in the 80s. So it had two art shops when I was last there, (Manchester had one). And you had a choice of which style of Tai Chi, crystal therapy, or rebirthing you wanted just from the ads in the post office. And a working class shrugged it all off as nonsense :-).
Transport for getting into cities is very good in England. Remember a lot of English people can't afford cars. You can get to practically any village in England by bus or train. Look in
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/
The Dales are one of the prettiest parts of England and not far away.
But just look at the map and you'll see how close all these places are together. You can't go wrong with any country village really.
Sushi

Thanks for that Sushi.

If I accept, i'll be going over house hunting (or at least hoping that I get some time off to do so!).

Probably start in Leeds and get off at each stop and see how quick I can find a pub... it if takes too long, the village is crossed off the list! Seriously, someone at work recommended that I start at Horsforth (sp?) and look at each village one at a time.

Thanks,
Kris

I'd say that's the wrong rail line; you are heading eastwards to the flatness of the vale of york. I'm guessing you like the outdoors (this is ETS) head north west to the Dales or east to the pennines. Look at a contour map to see what I mean. South or east is flat. North or west is hills.
Hebden bridge is such a steep valley they build houses on top of each other and both have a front door at ground level.
Sushi

Sorry should have been head 'west' to the pennines obviously.
A contour map will make your decision easy. The Dales are gorgeous. And as for the pub thing (what do you mean 'seriously'? they aren't allowing non boozers on ETS now are they?)
My wifes home village is so small it doesn't have a single shop. But it has a pub. You can't be in a village without one here.
Sushi

There are very few places in the UK that does not have a pub. And if a train stops at the village then there will normally be a pub next too or very near the station, often with a railway themed name.

I would go as far as saying there are more pubs in the middle of the countryside by themselves with no village than there are villages without pubs.

Sushi... are you referring to areas like Skipton, Hetton, Grassington, etc? Its important I stay close to the rail line as much as possible. Hoping only to purchase one vehicle for the family so my wife stay in the 'football mom' status that she loves (yes, football and not soccer ;-)).

Schools and lifestyle are very important for us. So the areas have to support that.


Addition note: Maybe Hellifield?

Grassington and Hetton have no rail stations. But don't forget where there isn't a train station there is usually a bus.
And american football in England? I think you are going to find them very few and far between.
Anyone else help us out here? I'm neither a parent nor a sports fan, but was surprised we even had it here (I just looked it up on Wikepedia). Yes there are adult teams.
Are there any childrens teams? Do schools play it? What age are the babies Kris? I'm the black sheep in a family of teachers; I'll ask around.
Sushi

American football? Nah, i was referring to football, soccer for the north americans. Never understood the attraction till I moved to the Caymans.

Looking more in the area and its like within 20 miles of Leeds theres like hundreds (well, not quite) of villages. Surprising amount! Its like every few hundred feet theres another one!

I suspected you didn't realise how small a scale we were talking about.
Glad you finally looked at the map, I did tell you to; 3 times! :-)

You can fit England into Texas ten times. And England has twice Texas's population. As you've seen from the map, everything is so close. And a lot of people don't have cars. A quick web search will show you how extensive the transport network is. Manchester to Leeds for instance is easily commutable.
Sushi

I did look at a map, just didn't see the legend and the scale. Very use to north american dimensions!!!!

In 10 miles, i counted 13 villages (well, 13 names of towns and the like).

Take Harrogate to Leeds, its about 16 miles but on mapquest its about 30 mins by car... any ideas how long by rail?

34 minutes and costs £5.30p single. Just use the link I posted earlier.
Sushi

34 minutes and costs £5.30p single. Just use the link I posted earlier.
Sushi

Thanks again...

Well, it looks like i'm going... accepted the offer today.

Now trying to move all this stuff!

Kris,

You do realize that according to most accepted rational thought, we are both moving in the wrong direction?

Me for going north in the winter, and you for leaving the Caymans at all!

LOL!!!!

Yeah, I've been thinking about that, but there are reason's why i'm leaving and they are jusified and i'm not going (or already gone) mad! LOL

If y'all are interested in present day immigration issues of the island I can talk at length on the topic. But after 6 years living in a bubble there are things you do miss. Like having an indoor mall with more things other then rolex's, travelling in a car for longer then 40 mins on different roads, camping (not allowed here except on Easter weekend when you can camp on the beach), cheap flying, normal price for groceries and utilities, seasons, more accepting society, etc... I could go on and on but the island does have a lot more positives then negitives, its why this is a hard choice.

But we'll give England a shot and we can always come back to the island for another 7 year stint. If not, we'll stay in England for a bit and i'll learn how to drink Tetley's Bitter!

No not Tetleys! Never! Brewed in a gasworks.

Walk into pub, look for hand pulls, try each in turn

My out-laws are from Guiseley so I know and love the area.

I already have my favorites... but will do another 'around the world' for old times sake ;-)