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#180862 - 08/31/09 12:28 AM Fly fishing?
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
I know, I know, it is late in the season to be asking this, but...

People have tried to teach me fly fishing on several occasions. The ONLY thing I've ever caught is my hat and a couple frogs just dangling the fly in front of them in disgust. So... is there a good book, or video, showing how to get the cast right? I'm not much of a fisherman, I only go out a few times a year as a social thing, but a food source is a food source.

I figure I can practice standing in a snow bank this winter, and watching a dry fly bounce on the top of the snow.
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When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#180869 - 08/31/09 02:07 AM Re: Fly fishing? [Re: ironraven]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Most people learning to cast get into trouble by working it too hard and by letting the rod tip come back too far behind them. (over the shoulder)

Casting a fly is more like snapping a whip.
Casting bait is more like throwing a rock.
They are not the same type of action.

With a fly line the weight of the fly is nothing and you are really just casting the line. The fly actually slows the line down as you cast. Flies have a lot of wind resistance and no weight.
You can even practice casting with no fly at all, but it is hard to see where you are casting then and the line by itself travels farther than it does when it is dragging the fly through the air.
I used to tie a piece of yarn on my line for practicing. You don't get the hook sticking into things then or lose nice flies when you manage to pop them off

If you think of a vertical clock face your rod tip should move from about ten or 11 o'clock to about 1 o'clock.
Use your elbow to move it instead of your wrist. The rod and your forearm should stay in a straight line as you move them.

After that it is just a bit of timing. You need to pause just long enough between the forward and back motions to let the line mostly straighten out
If you don't pause long enough on the back cast the line does not get out flat enough behind you to cast well.
You also start popping the flies off the leader because you are snapping the line like a whip. Sometimes you even hear them. You don't want the fly to snap like the popper on a bullwhip.
If you wait too long on the back cast it starts to sink. You will get flies snagging the grass and you get a weak and loopy forward cast. when you have a big vertical loop rolling forward on your cast you are waiting to long between you back cast and forward cast.

It really helps to have somebody watch you from the side when you practice. They might even have to hold your arm at the right position because most of us are really bad at telling how far back over our shoulder and down we are letting the rod tip drop.

I wish I knew a good book or video to tell you.
I don't know one though.
I was taught to cast by an old fellow years ago and the biggest things he kept on about was not moving the rod tip to far forward or back and to try for accuracy instead of distance at first.

If there is a sportsman's show near you they often have casting clinics for beginning fly fishermen. They can be a great help to get you started. Maybe if you have the wife or kids in tow they can be shown the form of a cast to watch for and can help you practice by telling you if you are moving the tip too far back.
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#180875 - 08/31/09 02:25 AM Re: Fly fishing? [Re: ironraven]
MoBOB Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 1219
Loc: here
Go down to the Orvis School in Manchester (your home state) for some lessons.

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"Its not a matter of being ready as it is being prepared" -- B. E. J. Taylor

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#180897 - 08/31/09 12:30 PM Re: Fly fishing? [Re: ]
williamlatham Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 265
Loc: Stafford, VA, USA
"...in my youth..." Izzy you're kidding right???

Bill

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#180909 - 08/31/09 02:12 PM Re: Fly fishing? [Re: ]
UncleGoo Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 392
Loc: CT
+1 on using a small piece of yarn, instead of a fly--and moving the rod between 10 and 1. Wait for the line to extend behind you: if you push the rod forward too early, you'll "crack the whip" and snap the fly off the line. Watch the videos on Youtube, and if you have a digital camera, set it down on movie mode, and record yourself, so you can see what you're doing, and how it varies from the posted videos.
One thing I've noticed around here(northwest Connecticut), is that some flyfishermen hold their noses very high in the air--don't know if this helps their casting...;-)

edited for clarity


Edited by UncleGoo (08/31/09 02:14 PM)
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#180910 - 08/31/09 02:13 PM Re: Fly fishing? [Re: ironraven]
Polak187 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 1403
Loc: Brooklyn, New York
Doesn't Orvis have a fly fishing school in VT? I know that LL Bean is doing clinics/starter classes but thats Maine if ya wanna take a ride...
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#180921 - 08/31/09 03:42 PM Re: Fly fishing? [Re: ironraven]
M_a_x Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1208
Loc: Germany
Learning fly fishing from a video or a book is really hard as it does not tell you about your mistakes. I recommend finding a competent instructor. As casting a fly is something that gets automated I would also recommend to wait for the next spring to allow your muscles to forget some of the wrong motions.
I used to instruct newbies in our club and there are some common mistakes learned from casting lures.
To improve your technique you could try some of the following:
  • use about 30 feet of line at first - much more is more difficult much less will lure you into moving too fast
  • keep your line tight with your left hand, slack line will rob speed
  • attempt to stop the backwards movement at 12 - that is plenty for most cases - 11 to 1 is for playing to entire 30 yards
  • a tight line will tell you when the backwards movement is finished, learn to feel it by watching it
  • waiting too long will make the line a little slower, not waiting long enough makes your line drop before your feet, better wait a little too long until you get the timing right

Generally people who cast fly badly, move the rod to much and with an excessive frequency. I didnīt meet a single one who was too slow. Most of them also allow the line to go slack between the hand and first ring
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#180926 - 08/31/09 04:16 PM Re: Fly fishing? [Re: M_a_x]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Pretty good advice, except for the nose in the air thing!

There should be a local fly fishing club near you. Most clubs delight in teaching a newbie. Insist one just one instructor and make sure he or she is really good at walking the walk as well as talking the talk.

Lefty Kreh is my fly fishing guru. His books and tapes always made the most sense.

Find a quiet place to practice by yourself.

Have fun!

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#180931 - 08/31/09 05:03 PM Re: Fly fishing? [Re: dweste]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2998
Some of our local and state parks have started doing lessons, the state parks will have license free days at the same time so you can go without needing to pay anything. I;m going to take the kids when they get older and hopefully learn myself.

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#180943 - 08/31/09 06:41 PM Re: Fly fishing? [Re: Eugene]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Second thoughts:

Great learning experience is to stand right behind a good fly caster and put your casting hand lightly on theirs, close your eyes and feel the rhythm of their casting.

Work with short casts. Most of your typical stream or river fly fishing involves short casts anyway.

Like most fishing, success comes from learning where the fish are more than becoming a world champion caster. Positioning before casting by proper, unobtrusive, walking or wading is worth far more than being able to cast further than the next person.

Learn by observing where the fish are likely feeding, on top, down on the bottom, or in mid-water. If you cannot tell than as a beginner - move to a place where you can. This will tell you what kind of fly and what kind of fishing technique is most likely to be successful.

Do not conclude that what you see others doing is correct; figure out what makes sense to you and experiment until you start having success. There is a reason 10% of those fishing catch 90% of the fish.


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#180945 - 08/31/09 07:10 PM Re: Fly fishing? [Re: dweste]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Intersperse your efforts to catch pickier fish, like trout, with fishing for more aggressive "easier' fish like panfish. They call it fishing, but it is nice to be catching.

If you are learning fly fishing to add to your survival skill arsenal, consider what kind of fish your survival efforts might target and be sure to spend some time going after them.

You might not want to spend too much time with purists who may have the elevated nose syndrome, but check them out to see what they have to teach. It does not matter to the fish if you use a refined trout technique on bluegill.

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#180948 - 08/31/09 07:15 PM Re: Fly fishing? [Re: dweste]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
I started my buddy out with roll casting on a smooth lake on a windless day. That seems to have given him a good sense of line weight, rod springiness and timing before he tried to false cast overhead. Helped a lot that the fish were willing to be caught.

Sometimes good fly fishing IS as easy as roll casting :-)

You can do roll casting with a tree branch in a survival situation. Handy to know how to do.

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#181003 - 09/01/09 01:10 AM Re: Fly fishing? [Re: unimogbert]
Yuccahead Offline
Member

Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 199
Loc: W. Texas
Some rambling thoughts on the topic:
I second Scafool's and other's advice (though the 11-to-1 can change a bit with different lines/rods and wind). When I have been away from fly fishing for a while and need to get my cast back, I find it helps to look back and watch for the line to just about straighten out behind you and then start the forward motion.

I would also say to practice in places where back-snags won't drive you nuts before you even get to a stream.

Beyond taking a lesson, I'd say go fishing with a guide. You'll get the casting lesson plus a lot more and it will be more enteraining than just a casting lesson. Of course, it can cost a lot.

As far as books, along time ago, there used to be a book -_ actually it was almost a comic book -- called the Curtis Creek Manifesto. It is fantastic. It's still available on Amazon for $10 and doubtless can be found used for less. This book covered all the basics in a funny easy to understand way.

On a more intermediate level than Curtis Creek Manifesto, I would suggest Prospecting for Trout by Tom Rosenbauer.

I've also read Tactics on Trout by Ray Ovington and it was good but it's for someone who wants to approach each possible boulder or riffle with a complete plan of attack. Still, it can be educational even if you just read a couple of chapters.

Finally, while I haven't seen it, as I was looking to see if Curtis Creek Manifesto was still around, I noticed on Amazon "Joan Wulff's Dynamics of Casting... (DVD) for $22. It seems highly rated...



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#181030 - 09/01/09 12:39 PM Re: Fly fishing? [Re: Yuccahead]
Andrew_S Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 59
Fly casting is actually a pretty simple skill to learn. Like anything, the basics are simple enough, but then it takes practice.

You can learn from a qualified instructor, just about anyplace. Find a fly shop: if they don't have an FFF-certified casting instructor on staff, they'll know where you can find one. Or you can find a local club. You don't need a certified instructor to learn the basics.

You *can* learn fly casting from books and videos. The problem is, you get conflicting info from various sources who have different takes on how it works. Best to stick to one video and nail it. Doug Swisher has a good video on fly casting, put out by 3M/Scientific Anglers on DVD. (No affiliation; I just happen to know that one.)

Fly fishing is a deadly way to catch fish in shallow water. As long as you have the appropriate flies, you can take trout, panfish, largemouth and smallmouth bass, carp, pike ... just about anything.

And it's fun.

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#181097 - 09/01/09 11:05 PM Re: Fly fishing? [Re: Andrew_S]
drahthaar Offline
Member

Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 111
Ditto on going to a fly fishing school.

It's far better to learn to do it the proper way than to sort of figure it out on your own and then have to unlearn all of your bad habits as you improve.

....not that I am speaking from experience or anything.

It is really quite simple and easy to do - just like hitting a golf ball (ha!).

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#181108 - 09/01/09 11:57 PM Re: Fly fishing? [Re: drahthaar]
Kris Offline
Addict

Registered: 04/13/07
Posts: 627
Loc: A Canadian Back in Canada
Originally Posted By: drahthaar

It is really quite simple and easy to do - just like hitting a golf ball (ha!).


Famous last words! I've been trying to fly fish since I was 5 years old and still get yelled at from my dad cause i'm doing something wrong! He's old school.

My advice, make sure the beer is on ice and the stories will come... who cares if they are true!
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#181131 - 09/02/09 03:26 AM Re: Fly fishing? [Re: Kris]
MoBOB Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 1219
Loc: here
Learning should be easy enough. The hard part is keeping yourself from buying all the toys when you decide to start tying your own. It can be just as addicting as getting your EDC, BOB, and BOV all set up. One thing leads to another, ad nuaseum.
_________________________
"Its not a matter of being ready as it is being prepared" -- B. E. J. Taylor

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#181132 - 09/02/09 05:05 AM Re: Fly fishing? [Re: MoBOB]
Warren Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 4
See if you have a local Trout Unlimited chapter in the area. They often host fishing clinics. After you learn to cast you can attend one of their fly tying classes.

And Izzy, go back and try largemouth on a fly. Use a big deer hair popper. They'll hit it so hard that you'll get splashed. It's a blast.

Warren

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#181133 - 09/02/09 05:24 AM Re: Fly fishing? [Re: MoBOB]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Originally Posted By: MoBOB
The hard part is keeping yourself from buying all the toys when you decide to start tying your own.



And the problem is? laugh

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#181292 - 09/03/09 06:15 PM Re: Fly fishing? [Re: dweste]
atoz Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 144
Loc: Nevada
First check out the local community colleges and Recreation Centers to see if they have an into to flyfishing class. There is so much more to flyfishing then just casting. If not maybe a local flyfishing shop offers a class. There there are guides. But just learn to cast is just a start.
I like Lefty Kher's books and videos, check out the local library to see if they have any videos.
Well GL with your endeveor. Let me know if you have any more questions.
cheers

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#181336 - 09/04/09 02:11 AM Re: Fly fishing? [Re: ironraven]
UncleGoo Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 392
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: ironraven
...a food source is a food source...

Don't forget, if the flies aren't working for you, you can always slip a grub or a worm over that hook.
There's a stretch of river here that is now fly-fishing only, catch and release. Years ago, it was fly-fishing only, but you could keep the trout. I can't tell you how many people got pinched for slipping a piece of bait over the fly.
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Utilize,
Realize.

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