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#180294 - 08/24/09 10:17 PM A plane crashes and I'm first on scene
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
A plane crashes and I'm first on scene. I report it on my cell phone. then what?

What do I do? What should I not do?

Edit: Assume I am in my vehicle with one or two car fire extinguishers, a small first aid kit , and lots of stuff in my bug-out-bag for outdoor survival.


Edited by dweste (08/24/09 10:18 PM)

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#180296 - 08/24/09 10:24 PM Re: A plane crashes and I'm first on scene [Re: dweste]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1918
Loc: Washington, DC
From your title I thought you were at the scene today of the small plane that landed on a California freeway and was subsequently run into by three cars.

First thing I'd do is see if there was anyone alive to help.

But I wouldn't move them unless they were in imminent danger from fire or explosion.

If there were anyone alive I would imagine there would be bleeding to try and stem.

I'd sure be praying I wasn't there by myself for long.


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#180297 - 08/24/09 10:34 PM Re: A plane crashes and I'm first on scene [Re: Dagny]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Originally Posted By: Dagny
I'd sure be praying I wasn't there by myself for long.


Amen.

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#180300 - 08/24/09 10:46 PM Re: A plane crashes and I'm first on scene [Re: dweste]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
SCENE SAFETY!!!

Is the plane on fire? Fuel spill? Are you downwind and sucking in toxic fumes? Any hazard to yourself, and you're best standing back and staying alive. Don't become a victim!

OK, now assuming the scene is totally secure... I'd stop my car, with all lights on (headlights, E-flashers, everything) 30-50 yards before the plane, angled so as to block 2 lanes of traffic. Why? Scene safety! You occasionally see FF's killed when some jack@$$ drives past their engine and nails them.

Triage: number of patients? Breathing or not? Usually, if they're not breathing, you give one attempt at opening the airway. If they don't start, they're dead enough. Keep moving. Stop only to apply bandages to HEAVY bleeding and assess patients. If a person can follow commands, they're good enough. Once you have a rough idea on patients and severity, call back 911 and update them, so they can update the units responding and include more if needed.

I'd not move folks personally. treat the most serious injured first. Usually though, really injured folks need more than gauze and an IV, so it's kinda/sorta OK to pass up someone with a horrible internal injury in order to treat someone else - only because you can't really treat that internal injury with a FAK.

That's enough for now.

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#180302 - 08/24/09 10:48 PM Re: A plane crashes and I'm first on scene [Re: MDinana]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Assume I stumble thr0ugh that, there are survivors invarious conditions, and the plane is starting to smoke, now what?


Edited by dweste (08/24/09 10:49 PM)

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#180305 - 08/24/09 10:58 PM Re: A plane crashes and I'm first on scene [Re: MDinana]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
I'd probably barricade with my rig THEN get closer. Rubberneckers are going to be an issue, I'd want to have a "lee" behind my vehicle big enough for a rig to get into.

And while doing triage, if anyone is coherent, try to get them to stay in their seats, and if there are enough people that they are getting in the way, some start taking history.

As soon as the cavalry shows up, hand off and ask their boss where they want me, and if the answer is the hell off their scene I leave my name and contacts and get the hell off their scene. smile
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#180310 - 08/24/09 11:07 PM Re: A plane crashes and I'm first on scene [Re: dweste]
big_al Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 586
Loc: 20mi east of San Diego
dweste:

1st question is it a civilian aircraft ?
2nd question dose it use gasoline or JP4
3rd question is there people in it(if its a jet fighter, there gone.
4th question is there fire or heavy smoke
5th question is there anything else envolved in the crash.
6th question is it a strike damage aircraft(actually a hard crash like a nose job) or just a hard landing?

Next
Dweste you had to get me into this didn't you grin
_________________________
Some people try to turn back their odometers.
Not me, I want people to know "why" I look this way
I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved

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#180311 - 08/24/09 11:11 PM Re: A plane crashes and I'm first on scene [Re: big_al]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Civilian as far as I can tell, no idea of the fuel, victims inside, just light smoke just started, plane onto roadway only, don't know what you mean by strike damage.

And, yes, al, you opened your big post and I jumped on it!

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#180320 - 08/25/09 12:09 AM Re: A plane crashes and I'm first on scene [Re: dweste]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
Having been to several rotary wing crashes, you are going to be looking at spinal and leg injuries. If it isn't going to burn or sink DON"T MOVE ANYONE.

If you are knowledgeable about the aircraft, or it is really well marked, you might kill the battery breakers (or whatever the right term is). No juice, fewer sparks.

If it is military, and burning, you may have ammo cooking off once it gets too hot. If it is a gunship, you might consider finding another zip code to be in....
_________________________
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.

RIP OBG

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#180321 - 08/25/09 12:13 AM Re: A plane crashes and I'm first on scene [Re: dweste]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
If you can approach the wreck I would think the first thing, after call it in and getting emergency service moving in that direction, would be to turn off everything and kill the power. If there is no fire you want to keep it that way. Turning off the power reduces the chances of sparks and of fuel or hydraulic pumps spreading or spraying flammable liquids.

If there is no obvious fire risk don't be too quick to move occupants. Small planes often lose their wings, and most of their fuel, if they crash into trees. The fuselage may carry on for a considerable distance. Which can greatly reduce the chances of a fire threatening any survivors.

Assuming they live falling out of the sky often means traumatic damage with a high potential for spinal cord injury. If there is significant bleeding a tourniquet may be your best option. This can often be done without having to move the person so there is less chance of spinal cord injury. Staunching the worse of the bleeding and comforting them may be your best option.

If there is an imminent danger of fire you may be forced to move people. If you do try to support the neck, clothing or foam rubber from the seats might be used as an expedient cervical collar, and to keep the spine straight. Dragging a person is easier, and often less damaging, than carrying them. A blanket, tarp or other large piece of cloth can make dragging someone easier and provide some support.

If there are just a few small fires and you clearly have time and resources putting them out might be a good move. It would be good to have people survive the crash but die in a brush fire.

If your in a forest or the site is not otherwise clearly visible you might consider providing emergency services with some sort of visual clue as to where to go. In remote areas a small but smoky fire started well away from the wreck might provide this clue as would a brightly colored tarp or flag. But, as I understand it, most crashes happen near airports and responders usually have a very good feel for the immediate surrounding area so visual clues might be unnecessary.

Those are the things that come to mind but response will always be an exercise in improvisation and management. Of balancing what you can do with what should be done. Doing too much can do as much harm as doing nothing. Take a deep breath, think it through, then act.

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