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#180325 - 08/25/09 01:25 AM Re: A plane crashes and I'm first on scene [Re: Art_in_FL]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
I am not a pilot or familiar with aircraft, is there a universal location / color /way of turning off power?

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#180330 - 08/25/09 02:05 AM Re: A plane crashes and I'm first on scene [Re: dweste]
yelp Offline
Member

Registered: 06/04/08
Posts: 172
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: dweste
I am not a pilot or familiar with aircraft, is there a universal location / color /way of turning off power?


Unfortunately not, at least w/ civilian ships. While you're in there, also turn off the fuel pump. These tips mostly apply to passengers, so hopefully you had a safety briefing before getting in; make sure to ask if not.

Fun fact: If somebody is over six feet two inches height, they're much more susceptible to breaking a femur on a hard landing. I don't really understand it but it's in the mechanics. Anybody care to expound?
_________________________
(posting this as someone that has unintentionally done a bunch of stupid stuff in the past and will again...)

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#180333 - 08/25/09 02:23 AM Re: A plane crashes and I'm first on scene [Re: yelp]
big_al Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 586
Loc: 20mi east of San Diego
deweste:
strike damage in when there is major damage to the fusalage and the wings,or rotors. in other words the aircraft is not salvageable but manley twisted metal and wires,engine and other components ( read JUNK )

My big post? I just made a comment on yours, but you got the fourm going grin
_________________________
Some people try to turn back their odometers.
Not me, I want people to know "why" I look this way
I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved

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#180336 - 08/25/09 02:52 AM Re: A plane crashes and I'm first on scene [Re: dweste]
big_al Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 586
Loc: 20mi east of San Diego
Originally Posted By: dweste
Civilian as far as I can tell, no idea of the fuel, victims inside, just light smoke just started, plane onto roadway only, don't know what you mean by strike damage.

And, yes, al, you opened your big post and I jumped on it!


O.K. we will assume it is a standard 2 or 4 place aircraft with two people that you can see. If possible approch the area from the down wind side, When you leave your car take your fire extinguisher and first aid kit. more than likley it will have low lead gas on board, smoke is bad, if it is coming from the eng area send a squrt from your extinguisher in the holes just behind the prop. I am going to assume(again) that you have a dry chem ext. If there is fuel on the ground dust it with the ext. Now check on the passengers be very carefull of the head area (any thing in the back seat that was not tied down could of hit then in the back of the head)
hopefully because of your actions there is no fire. insure they are breathing make sure there head is not on there chest and cuting off air flow. leave them in the aircraft and use your first aid kit to stop or reduce bleeding. During all this time you have to make sure some fool dosen't come running up and try to Pull the people out of the wreak. When you are alone you have to be a firefighter, medic and cop. buy this time I hope a LEO and the fire department is there to help you. When they get there back off and let them do there jobs, but stay around they will have a lot of questions for you.
_________________________
Some people try to turn back their odometers.
Not me, I want people to know "why" I look this way
I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved

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#180337 - 08/25/09 03:16 AM Re: A plane crashes and I'm first on scene [Re: dweste]
big_al Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 586
Loc: 20mi east of San Diego
Originally Posted By: dweste
I am not a pilot or familiar with aircraft, is there a universal location / color /way of turning off power?


as a general rule most switches can be reached from the pilots location (left side for fixed wing aircraft and could be eather side for a rotor wing aircraft) What you will be looking for is a switch labled battery or BATT and it could be on a regular key switch. on a small aircraft it more than likley be on the lower left side of the forward panel. on rotor wing it could be in the center panel on small ships or on the overhead panel on larger ships.
_________________________
Some people try to turn back their odometers.
Not me, I want people to know "why" I look this way
I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved

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#180354 - 08/25/09 12:34 PM Re: A plane crashes and I'm first on scene [Re: big_al]
thseng Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 900
Loc: NW NJ
Coupla things. On most small planes, the ignition system is completly seperate from battery/electrical system.

There will be a switch (perhaps a key) labled "MAGS" with positions OFF-LEFT-RIGHT-BOTH and perhaps START.

The battery switch is usually called the MASTER SWITCH.

There may be a fuel boost pump switch. There is also a FUEL SELECTOR valve labled OFF-LEFT-RIGHT and sometimes BOTH.

There have been enough movies where they got it wrong that I should mention that you pull the trottle all the way BACK for idle. To shut down the engine, you pull the red MIXTURE lever/knob all the way back and wait a few moments for the engine to stop and then turn the MAGS off. This runs the engine dry of fuel so that it can't "kick" if someone moves the prop.
_________________________
- Tom S.

"Never trust and engineer who doesn't carry a pocketknife."

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#180357 - 08/25/09 01:55 PM Re: A plane crashes and I'm first on scene [Re: thseng]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
I have to think that you start by handling the incident as you would any other vehicular accident. Most of the prior responses seem to be in line with that approach. For example, I would encourage accident victims to stay put and not move them myself, unless conditions dictated that not moving them put them in great danger. If either a car or plane was on fire, you might consider moving the people insdie or near it. The materials that might be burning in either a car or plane should be similar. The plane is likely to have things that burn differently than those in a car, the fuel may burn differently, but it's still going to have the same type of fires, with probably most commencing with Class B materials.

First thing, get help coming. Have someone make a 911 call and know it's being made.

Second, begin to assess things. What happened? What is still happening? What position and condition is the vehicle in, and does that position and condition pose a threat to anyone in it or around it? Can you change that position and/or condition to improve things? What are the conditions of people involved, and do any of them need attenion right now, such that if they do not get it, they are not going to make it? If they are in danger, can you do anything about it? Is there more than one person in such a condition? Which one needs more attention, which conditions can you address? How far out is help? When are they expected to get there?

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#180374 - 08/25/09 04:27 PM Re: A plane crashes and I'm first on scene [Re: Dan_McI]
GarlyDog Offline
τΏτ
Old Hand

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 776
Loc: The People's Republic of IL
I was in this situation about 20 years ago. My girlfriend and I were up late one Summer night and we heard a plane fly very low over the house. A few moments later, we heard the engine roar and then a loud thud. We looked at each other in shock as we both realized what just happened.

At the time, we were living in a mostly forested area. From the sound, we had a rough idea of where the plane went down.

We scrambled around for flashlights and hiked/jogged out about a 1/2 mile to where we both thought the plane had crashed. It was a full moon, so it was pretty easy hiking.

Surprisingly, it didn't take long to find the plane. It was right where we guessed it would be. The flashlight beams reflected back from the white tail and half the fuselage that were sticking up out of the ground. It was a small single engine plane.

I sent my girlfriend back to the house to call the police and I proceeded to see if I could help any survivors.

When I got closer, I could see chunks of flesh and debris strewn about the site. The smell of fuel was heavy in the air. There was no smoke or fire. It was a gruesome sight.

Realizing that no one survived, I walked back to the house meet up my GF and the authorities who had just arrived at the house.




_________________________
Gary








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#180483 - 08/26/09 12:31 PM Re: A plane crashes and I'm first on scene [Re: GarlyDog]
CAP613 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 87
Loc: W. PA
Assuming it is a light aircraft you would follow the same procedures as any vehicle crash.

One thing I have noticed with plane crashes you tend to get the two extremes either light injures or everyone's dead there is not much in between. Helios are of course an exception.

One thing to watch for is if it's a high wing aircraft the fuel tanks are in the wing, most of the time a real tank not a wet wing, the fuel is gravity fed to the fuel pump and engine. On most Cessna products there is a fuel sector in the middle of the front of the instrument panel, do not bother with it the push rods the work the valves tend to bend making to useless. If it is a low wing many of then only have one door on the right side of the cabin and the fuel is in the wing several company use a wet wing where the skin of the wing is the fuel tank.

The master switch is usually a rocker switch on the lower part of the panel just to the left of the engine controls (not always but most of them seem to do this) If it is a low wing many of then only have one door on the right side of the cabin and the fuel is in the wing several company use a wet wing where the skin of the wing is the fuel tank. Also the master switch does not turn the ELT off. Do not bother with the key switch that only works the mags that will not have power as long as noone moves the prop.

Please note any action you take and report it to the NTSB or the state investigaters when you can.
_________________________
Ward

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#180484 - 08/26/09 12:44 PM Re: A plane crashes and I'm first on scene [Re: CAP613]
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2210
Loc: NE Wisconsin
A few years back we had a small plane 'trip' over some high power lines and crash just at the end of my road - maybe 1/4 mile away. There wasn't anything to do but call 911. All that was left was some burning grass and a pile of twisted metal. Nobody could have survived that hit as they came almost straight down nose-first (the neighbor boy saw it coming down).

Amazingly one of the Chicago TV stations (5 or 7??) was on the scene very fast. They must listen to police channels.

These days there are hundreds of houses where that plane hit. The nearby airport is still there and operating. At some point one of those houses is bound to cushion someone's landing.

Ken

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