I had posted my SHTF bag's contents a while back and someone stated that for my purposes (7 days of survival out of a single bag, bug in, bug out, whatever) I was light on food. I was originally carrying 3 MRE (entrees only), a 3600 Mainstay food ration, and 8 Quaker chocolate chunk granola bars (the skinny ones).

So, I ordered 2 of the 2400 Mainstay food rations to throw in there. My question is, would the Mainstay rations fit the bill? With 1 of the 3600 and 2 of the 2400 bars in there, plus the granola bars, would the MRE entrees even be necessary?

I know the human body can SURVIVE without food for even longer than a week, but at a cost. So, I'd rather have food in there to last me.

Surviving is a calorie draining strain on the system, requiring additional intake to sustain yourself. At best, it's bad enough. There's no need to make it worse by starving if it's not necessary. If you have to, that's another thing, but why do it if you don't have to?

What are you planning on doing for water?

I carry a 160 ounces of water in the bag and have 200 water purification tablets, a 32 ounce Nalgene, filters, and a large coffee can to boil water in.

I think the best way to answer your question is to actually try and live on the food in your kit. I think it's really hard to look a limited list of food and tell a stranger whether it's "enough" for a week. I think you'll probably come to some sort of conclusion rather quickly, long before you hit seven days. And this experiment is without the added stress of some sort of crisis (though, just normal daily life for many of us seems like one long crisis!).

If you're healthy and usually eat sensibly, your metabolism may do fine. Your stomach may be grumbling for at least the first few days, but besides that, you may be able to function all right if you're not exerting yourself too much (although personally, I think it would be a rough seven days with those food items). But considering the way that many/most people eat and our dependence on high-sugar/highly processed foods, many of us can't even go for 8 hours without a meal without feeling all jittery and fatigued from a crash in blood sugar. Or coffee.

I gave up coffee a couple months back even though I only drank one cup in the morning. I had a splitting headache, my body ached, and I even felt nauseous for two or three days after I quit. I initially thought I had caught the flu because of the body aches. I started drinking a couple cups of tea a day sometime after quitting the coffee and even with tea, I discovered that I'd get withdrawal symptoms if I stopped. A rather sobering discovery for me. I'm not saying give up coffee/tea, but it's important to know how your body responds.

And how your body responds is the only answer that really counts for you.

Personally... at the very least keep the MRE entrees. I have case of MRE's in my supplies, but on my BOB is the dehydrated camp food. Anyway, my point is that you'll probably want a little variety if you're living out of a bag.

And speaking of variety, have you ever lived off water for 7 days only? If not, it can get dull. I'd toss in a couple packets of Gatorade or Kool-aid or Propel or coffee or.... you get the point. More a comfort item than survival, but light enough.

Finally, I'd personally suggest either the 2400 bars or lower, if they have them. Last thing you want is the 3600 to get a tear in the corner, and find out at an inopportune time that 3 days worth of food has rotted.

If the S ever did HTF, I don't know that I'd have much of an appetite.

Great suggestion on the Gatorade. Also look at NUUN tablets or some of the energy gels.

I have lived on water and MRE's alone for longer than 7 days. That is why there are drink mixes in the MRE's. Water can get old quick. Bad tasting water even faster.

We have Propel, Crystal Lite, coffee and tea packs. I also stash hard candies and the little breath strips in for morale boosters.

I still remember my first mail during Desert Storm. One pack of tic-tacs. Best package I ever received in the mail my entire life.


E[color:#3333FF]DIT: You may also want to consider fiber tablets and Loperamide. If you aren't adjusted to MRE's, I promise you one of the two will come in VERY handy by day two.[/color]

Just a quick note, if you are experiencing diarrhea, and replenishing your fluids is not a problem, you might want to avoid the imodium (loperamide) until you can rule out a bacterial infection. The body's response to certain GI bugs and ingested toxins is to evacuate the bowel as quickly as possible (diarrhea). Now, if you have a limited water supply (a serious survival situation), imodium might very well be indicated, because you will die from dehydration faster than from an infection.

Just my two cents

This logic tends to be a generally accepted urban legend (at least in my opinion). Most references/discussions of treatment with an anti-diarrhea medication almost always carries the suggestion to delay the use of such medication to allow the body to flush out the agent. While I cannot say that 100% of diarrhea is not a body’s defense mechanism, I think I can safely say it is not a major defense mechanism. The mechanism of diarrhea is more likely caused by the direct pathological (disease causing) effect the organism is having on the body, either though the production of toxins (exo- and endo-) and/or the physical invasion of intestinal mucosa.

Many of these organisms invade (viruses essential invade and take over a cell’s mechanics to produce more virus) or closely associate with the intestinal mucosa. Flushing (diarrhea) will likely have little effect on their populations. Two significant factors in the non-medicated treatment of diarrhea, is the body’s ability to mount an immune response and being out-competed (in the case of bacterial diarrhea) by the other intestinal flora. A relatively healthily individual is capable of mounting an immune response quicker and with greater vigor than a run-down individual. Maintaining hydration and vigor is critical, in combating diarrhea. Likewise, with respect to bacterial diarrhea is maintaining a healthy population of beneficial bacteria. Personally, I encourage the use of pro-biotics (taking a bacterial supplement or eating active culture yogurt / keefer) to maintain a healthy and pathogenic resistant intestinal tract. The best example for supporting this view is in comparing the relative resistance of axenic (germ-free) mice vs. mice with a normal population of intestinal flora. It takes a single Salmonella organism in the axenic mouse to establish an infection whereas in the intestinally normalized mice it takes in excess of 10^5 Salmonella organisms to establish an infection.

Here is a link to one article examining the mechanism of bacterial diarrhea:

Surface Structures of Escherichia coli That Produce Diarrhea by a Variety of Enteropathic Mechanisms


Pete

If you've got the room to spare, I would definitely keep the MRE entrees (and anything else) to help you cope with those Mainstay rations.
I would certainly eat the Mainstay "bricks" if there was no other option; but, (in my opinion) those Mainstay rations are a bit tough to consume, because of their bland taste and chalky texture.
So, being able to vary your meals with some items that are more "normal" could be a big asset.

A probiotic is the only supplement I take on a regular basis. Not to get too far away from the original topic, but the role of intestinal bacteria in fostering a well functioning immune system (as opposed to causing problems) is a field not well researched yet. I just happened to read this article recently, and the concept that some parts of the immune system require intestinal bacteria to function normally really blew me away. These folks also used "germ-free" mice.

The Microbial Health Factor
Just one molecule can make the difference in mediating a healthy immune response. Surprisingly, it comes from bacteria.

You guys are misunderstanding me. Most folks are not adjusted to MRE's (If one can ever truly adjust?), and there is usually a little stomach upset on one extreme or the other.

Just eat the peanut butter and the cheese with a meal or two, you'll understand...

Very interesting article and for me, more than just the intent of the article. You may note that in the illustration: BACTERIAL BALANCE reference is made to Helicobacter hepaticus or H. hepaticus. It just so happens in 1994(ish) I was part of a research team examining the possible causes of hepatocelluar carcinoma in a group of control mice, ultimately leading to the discovery that it was caused by a novel bacteria: H. hepaticus. I am one of the co-discoverers of H. hepaticus and co-hold a US patent for the organism.

Helicobacter hepaticus


Helicobacter hepaticus Patent


That information and $1.00 (perhaps $2-3 dollars now) will get you a cup of coffee. On a more serious note, there is increasing evidence that immunological and bacterial interactions may have a profound influence on the development of IBD and other intestinal inflammatory conditions.

Pete

Mainstay does not stay air tight for long if carried in a pack. Even in the back of a car moving around it can go bad...

Mine lasted <1 year in a pack I only had in my Jeep.

You could always add a couple of boxes of Pringles, a few cans of Cashews, Almonds, Pecans nuts etc. some # 10 Mountain House Cans' (gives around 4800 Calories)

and some cans of Slimfast (packed with calories and added vitamins)

http://www.amazon.com/Slim-Fast-Optima-V...ref=gronf_njs_1

and some dried milk powder for the Slimfast milk shakes and breakfast cereals.

Plus a box of Scotts Porage Oats Original

http://www.englishteastore.com/scpooa11lbs.html

and a couple Heinz Puddings

http://www.englishteastore.com/cak004.html

and some Earl Grey Tea of course;

http://www.englishteastore.com/dobeeagrtea2.html

Add some bags of rice, dried mushrooms, dried onion or sage and onion stuffing, dried potato, peanut butter, canned beef and canned Ghee or Butter etc

For 7 Days you will need a around 20-25,000 calories and even with high energy density food i.e a high fat content typically this would mean carrying around 5-6kg or 12-14lbs of food by weight. A few mainstay rations and MREs aren't going to sustain you for 7 days and better tasting more nutrious food can be found at the local supermarket.

Look out for long shelf life food packaging at the supermarket such as the same aluminized plastic retort laminated packaging used in Military rations i.e. Tuna and Salmon etc and the lighter weight aluminium cans.

Keep the real food.

Hiking and backpacking, I use a Mainstay 1200 per day, plus an MRE entree and side OR a MH Propak, and I also bring a few granola bars, mini slim jims and some electrolyte mix and tea. Can you do just the 1200 cals, yes, you can, but in theory you can also survive three weeks without food.

Good info guys. I'll probably end up leaving the MRE entrees in there, adding drink mix, maybe some MRE sides too. As far the the Mainstays losing vacuum, I should be good. They're pretty much bubble-wrapped inside a covered big coffee can. (There's smaller stuff packed around them to cushion them, then they're inside the can, then there's stuff packed around the can to cushion also). But I'll keep an eye on them anyway.

I need to dump out my bag one afternoon and take pictures anyway, as well as working more on the packing of it so it's easier to find stuff.

And as far as living on MRE's and Mainstays, I have an iron-clad stomach. Nothing ever seems to upset it, no matter what I eat. Inferno wings, greasy chicken, anything... bring it on.

What's the general consensus on other food bars? I know one is cinnamon flavored, and cinnamon is on of the few things I just can't eat. What else is out there for variety in food bars?

Why don't you experiment for say, a week? Add one package of MRE cheese or peanut butter and the ninja throwing crackers to each of your normal meals.

Let me know how things, ahem, come out.

I'd put a small bag of De-germinated Corn meal,small can of Crisco,& a few small cans of cooked Turnip Greens in place of those Mainstay Packs.Why?#1 The above weighs about the same as 2-3600 paks#2 Though the above is not as "Caloric" as, the Mainstay bars are,Fried Cornbread & Good greens w/ Pot Liquor will make anyone Smile Before,During,& After eating it!I have Never observed Even the closest inkling to a Slight Grin from,Anyone,After Attemping to Consume Just a few bites of a Mainstay bar!MRE's are very good also,I lived for 8 Months+ on Just MRE's in the Middle East,& Never Contracted the "Hershey Squirts" for that duration!To each his own for sure,but those Mainstay paks were meant for the Open Sea originally,whether onboard or Overboard,lol!& Cornbread will catch fish,Also!:)

If you want, you can study the 7-day survival packs put together by the commercial folks to see what their contents are. I don't know how they stack up for nutrition.

hopefully your adren doesn't take over(as in being in survive mode) and you keep goin w/o proper supps

I guess I'll have to try that and eat Mainstay's for a week and see how it goes.

My gripe about the 7 day kit (Mountain House) is that everyone who has reviewed it says the breakfast every day is crap and a lot of the entrees are very salty (like barely edible salty).

Okay, so Mainstay's alone isn't very likely gonna do it. Maybe some jerky or trail mix to spice things up a little. Maybe a few Mountain House entrees too if I can find some that aren't too salty.

So, Mainstays 1x3600, 2x2400 (I already have the 3600 and the 2400's or I'd put all 1200's or 2400's in there), 4 or so MH entrees, 8 granola bars, jerky, trail mix, and some hard candy... think that'd work for 7 days worth?

I think they are Mountain House, but there is a blueberry granola breakfast that I like a lot. In fact it may have been mentioned earlier in this thread.

Oatmeal with raisins, cinnamon and whatever else you like works real well for me also.

Eat what you plan to carry at home when you can just dump it if it won't work for you. Find your own favories. Remember the groocery store has lots of dried food, foil vacuum-wrapped stuff, etcetera that you do not have to buy ar specialty house prices.

Pemmican?
(Awful stuff but very nourishing)

+1 with dweste on the grocery stores.There are several products that they carry that pack well.Uncle Ben's and Zatarans have ready to eat rice dishes in a packet.They are pre-cooked and vacuum sealed.Just open and eat or boil in the bag.Spam,tuna and chicken come in foil packets now.You could add a packet of tuna or chicken to a Knorr brand noodle side and it is a palatible meal for two.Some of the pre packaged foodin stores are packed just like MRE components.They even taist better and don'tcost as much.

BOATMAN
John

Kind of tongue in cheek, but if you're looking at caloric density in foods... and judging by the Mainstay bars, you are... then 64oz jar of Mayo ought to hold you over for, what, about a month??

http://www.hellmanns.com/products/nutritional_info/NutritionInfo.aspx?ProdId=HELLMANNSREAL

"Pemmican?
(Awful stuff but very nourishing)"

Now hold it right there. Pemmican need not be awful. In fact it can be very good if it's put together with good ingredients and properly prepared. You can do just about anything with it.

Ounce for ounce, they can contain more calories than mainstay or any other survival food out there. They can be packed full of nutrition and variety as well.

Don't knock the Pemmican. If it's bad, it is the fault of the person who's making it.

A big jar of mayo? I think I'll pass, rofl.

I had forgotten about the Zatarains stuff, I friggin' LOVE their jambalaya. Anything I don't have to do a lot of cooking is a plus. I'm not currently packing a lot of cooking supplies. I can boil water easy enough to add to something that requires it.

I don't think I've ever tried pemmican, is it like trail mix? I'm thinking some freeze-dried or dehydrated fruit would be good too. Maybe bananas, strawberrys, or something. I know MH makes some of those.

Millennium bars are available in several flavors and I think they are pretty good in the area of calorie/storage life/flavor/value: http://www.emprep.com/sos%20rations%20energy%20bars.htm

It is important to have a variety. Beef jerkey, individual packs of nuts, dehydrated fruit, dehydrated food, etc.

Whatever packaging items come in, I usually put a ration into the smallest freezer zip-loc I can for extra protection, which gives you another (almost) waterproof container for whatever.

Man, I miss fizzies...

OMG, they're back: http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&key...sl_4189edgl7a_b

My 7 day pack (always in my SUV) contains 1 2400 cal mainstay per day and two of these, per day.
http://www.spam.com/products/classicsingles.aspx

I'm trying to survive and endure...not concerned about enjoying my meals. I carry no "comfort foods": instead I use that space/weight for extra water.

Now my 30 day larder is a bit more concerned with variety and balanced nutrition. Not my 7 day pack.

NOOOOOOO, not Spam!!!!


Sorry, just had a boy scout camping trip flashback...Carry on.

Those Millenium bars look pretty decent, and they come in some cool flavors too. I'm not a big fan of Spam, I ate too much of that when I was growing up I guess.

Anyone have a link to the foil vacuum-packed Zatarain's stuff? I can find it online for some reason.

Here's an article* that states that all Zatarain's products are packaged in the same size pouch (5x6.5 inches with a 2 inch gusseted bottom), which is a paper/aluminum foil/vinyl laminate: http://www.southernpackaging.com/packdig2_news.pdf

I just pulled a (6.3 oz.) box of their New Orleans style rice pilaf out of my cabinet and found the pouch to be approx 75% full of product. It does appear to be lightly vacuum-packed, but not as tightly vacuumed as some bricks of coffee I've seen.

*...which, apparently, was not referring to these (Ready To Serve Complete): http://shop.zatarains.com/default.php?categories_id=1403

Those are awesome, I haven't seen those before. Now I've got to get some.