I'm actually kinda flattered, but a Web site out west has grabbed a slightly older copy (say 3 months ago) of my go bag page, and made a PDF copy, and saved it to their web site as a reference document

The things that bug me are

1)The didn't leave any of the links in the PDF to the rest of my site live
2)They removed any reference to me
3)THEY DIDN'T Ask

I just sent them a nice letter, asking them to at least credit me, and I'll wait for the response, but what would YOU do? It's a quazi-governments site (a CERT team site) with a well known hard nosed sherrif in Az (no names at this point)

If I don't get a response - should I be hard nosed, or what?

They should at the very least have asked you and given you credit. To not do so is rude, but probably not criminal.

But if you pitch a complaint all they have to do is change the page slightly, as in the order of contents, make some other minor changes, and they have essentialy stolen your product without stealing it.

You can be all hard nosed, but to what end?

Smile, and realize you are helping others indirectly. That's whats it's all about isn't it?

Criminal, yes - ever read the DMCA? They grabbed my photos, my layout, my text, the whole thing

I can send a takedown notice...

It is not flattery. It's breach of copyright and theft of your intellectual property.

Don't ask for a credit. REQUIRE them to either remove it or you WILL TAKE ACTION AGAINST THEM.

As for quasi-goverment and a well known Arazona sherrif, so what?

This is not a matter of emminent domain (and even then they would have to compensate you).

In my opinion it´s simple. If you made it by yourself it´s your intellectual property and it´s copyrighted. No one can copy and modify it let alone expose it on their website without your consent. They even removed the reference to you or your website.

I would send them a friendly letter stating that although I am happy to see that my work is important enough to be copied and used it´s copyrighted work. I would then propose a way of linking the website. If they didn´t reply I would have a lawyer compose a letter for them.

If I were you I would at least add some small watermark with © and your name and/or a text linking your website to your photos. Also several lines of text like: "All rights reserved. No text or image from this Web site may be copied or retransmitted unless expressly permitted by..." etc. at the end of every page/article should at least stop some people from doing so or remind them that they are breaking the law.

Yes, I know it's copyright (hence the DMCA comment) - but I'm not really sure if I just want to give the page away or not...

If the certain unnamed county official's first name is Joe and he issues pink boxer shorts to inmates, it is a 50/50 toss up.

He is probably one of the most honorable men I have ever met, and would be troubled that something unlawful like this has happened. On the other hand, I would not want him upset with me if I ever had to enter his jurisdiction.

USGI GP Medium tents are absolutely horrific in the desert heat.


Edit: My experience is limited to a few meetings, so YMMV.

It's the same county - but the CERT team

Contact Joe if they are in ANY way affiliated with his department. Again it is 50/50. If you get the wrong 50, be careful if you visit.

One or two of your fellow moderators is in that area, maybe they could mention it to the CERT folks directly. If the CERT folks are worth their salt, they probably already listen to those folks anyway.

I feel you anger. I've had people turn my plant blog into booklets that they were selling at farmer's markets and other places. They did give me credit but no cut of the profit. Supposedly they have stopped after I asked them too, but I don't know for sure. I never sent a lawyer after them.

I have a lot of thoughts on this subject but I don't have time right now to go into them. I'll write more later.

-Blast

Mixed feelings. You should get credit because it is your work. Whichever individual took the info and made the .pdf probably did take credit for it and at the very least that is plagiarism. Depending on how the law is written, possibly theft.

OTOH, once you put the info out on the internet, you are sort of telling folks, "here is a list of things I've compiled and it's now in the public domain". Theft might be a hard sell, plagiarism is clear cut.

My opinion, not knowing much about copyright legalities.

All the talk about contacting sheriffs is just so much diversion.

Contact CERT, explain that your list was taken and used without your permission or attribution. Show them the side by side of your list with the now AZ CERT list. Propose an outcome that matches your level of concern and that will satisfy you (pull down the list, give proper attribution, give you 25 cents per download, etc).

Keep it in perspective - go bag lists are literally a dime a dozen, however you are alleging misuse of actual pictures of *your* go bag on AZ CERT's website. That's enough to at least trigger an apology, and proper attribution.

Wait a little bit for a response, say 3 days. If they are standup, they will at least acknowledge your list. What was done probably wasn't done by anyone witting at AZ CERT, most likely by a member. Whoever kyped your list may not even be aware of the idea of giving credit to its original author. In a small and mostly immaterial way, AZ CERT is most likely as much a 'victim' in this as you are. They remain responsible though for repairing the harm.

If you don't get a reply or satisfaction, send your email to the county prosecutor's office. The County Prosecutor is also an honorable guy, and won't think less of anyone for alleging copyright violation by a quasi-governmental agency in his jurisdiction. But crime being a growth industry, it will be difficult to find resources to address your copyright violation. Be patient, or call around and find a human being in the prosecutor's office - ask for the person who handles intellectual property theft or receives civil claims against the county. Anyway, you should be able to safely travel through the county regardless of the outcome, no one will come at you for doing damage to AZ CERT's mission or such nonsense. Frankly, any sheriff who steps into this issue and could actually threaten someones movement through his county over a copyright violation is not all that honorable in my book - he's a kook. But ordinarily, you should resolve this with a reasoned email to AZ CERT in the first place.

A new guy's 2 cents:

I know I'm new here, nor am I a lawyer, but I have done a LOT of reading about copyright law as a result of a parallel incident.

Posting something on the internet does NOT make it public domain unless you explicitly say so. If you created it, you have full copyright from the moment you create it. The only exception is if you post it somewhere that the act of posting gives someone else rights over it.

In your shoes I'd go directly to the head of the unit, via telephone if possible. They may not know it is stolen.

BTW, they didn't retype my page - they took a snapshot, with my graphics, my last changed date, my layout, everything!

They got back to me - apologized - said it was given to them by one of their members, and they thought it was the members page, and that it has been removed

I have told them that all they have to do is give me credit in the link, and they can freely have the page

Glad they got it taken care of.

I would have contacted them like you did asked them to remove it or reference me... if that doesn't work you go to their web host and tell them they are using (C) content w/out permission. If that doesn't work go to their host's dedicated server provider and complain there... they WILL listen I've been on both ends.

For future reference:

Compugeek is correct: "Posting something on the internet does NOT make it public domain unless you explicitly say so. If you created it, you have full copyright from the moment you create it. The only exception is if you post it somewhere that the act of posting gives someone else rights over it."

But this is NOT correct: "But if you pitch a complaint all they have to do is change the page slightly, as in the order of contents, make some other minor changes, and they have essentialy stolen your product without stealing it."

This fallacy is common in the art industry, as I have experienced. Commercial designers are fond of saying that if you make a 50% change, copyright laws do not apply. Well, YES, they DO apply.

Original design or text is copyrighted the moment it is transformed from your brain to any media.

It doesn't matter if they add or delete some text or photos, it doesn't matter if they flip photos or drawings over, it doesn't matter if they change the colors, or make any other changes. THE MATERIAL BELONGS TO YOU.

If you want to use someone's work (text or artwork, etc) as part of yours, you have to ask for and receive permission in writing from them to do so.

I'm glad the issue was resolved to your satisfaction.

As a Graphic Designer/Illustrator with an online portfolio I run into this problem quite a bit. Most of the time it's resolved without much hassle, but there have been a few occasions where it ha caused me a great amount of trouble and anguish.

About 50% of the time, as you had happen, I've had problems with one person taking the material I created to give it to a third party who may not have known it was stolen. In those cases I just inform the person of the infraction and let it go as long as they're not making money on my work. I will also tell them they must immediately stop using my work unless they purchase the rights and give proper credit.

The other cases have been willful theft, and in these instances it can get quite nasty.

I've also been the third party who was given someone else's work to incorporate into a project. It's usually pretty obvious when it happens, and when I am aware I will inform the person that I can't legally do what they want unless they purchase the rights to the Photo, artwork, illustration or otherwise get permission.

Hmm... I'll also own up to the fact that it could be argued that my Avatar here is a copyright infringement even though I created it in Illustrator as an editorial commentary on survival gadgetry. Even so, if Warner Brothers sent me a letter I'd take it down with no argument whatsoever.

A saner, safer person would suggest lawyers. I'm going to suggest mercenaries.

Seriously, a good cease and desist is a nice opening shot across the bow. It is your web page, and the copyright is yours.

I had someone hot link to several of my dog training website pictures. I uploaded several undesirable pictures with the same names to my site. I then changed the names of the desired pictures on my site and updated my page to display correctly.

End result: Correct picture on my website and pictures that motivated change on offender's website.

Unfortunately this solved my problem right away. I was kind of hoping to go to Stage II of my evil plan.

Agreed. Technically they will have formed a derivative work, which both you and they will own. A third person who wanted to copy it would have to get permission from both of you. They do get some rights from their contribution, but you still keep your rights from your contribution.

Derivative works are still copyright violations if the material is used without permission. This can be fairly fuzzy, depending on how much of a work is incorporated into the derived work.

The concept that you can simply change a few elements, or add to a work, and dodge copyright violations issues is false. I'm not picking on the post quoted, but responding to a few other posts in the thread on this point. I think what's happening is confusing trademark and patent issues with copyright. All three are distinctly different as far as the legal ramifications.