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#179646 - 08/18/09 01:11 PM Re: Stolen web page - what would YOU do? [Re: Blast]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Mixed feelings. You should get credit because it is your work. Whichever individual took the info and made the .pdf probably did take credit for it and at the very least that is plagiarism. Depending on how the law is written, possibly theft.

OTOH, once you put the info out on the internet, you are sort of telling folks, "here is a list of things I've compiled and it's now in the public domain". Theft might be a hard sell, plagiarism is clear cut.

My opinion, not knowing much about copyright legalities.
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Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
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#179650 - 08/18/09 02:17 PM Re: Stolen web page - what would YOU do? [Re: NightHiker]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
All the talk about contacting sheriffs is just so much diversion.

Contact CERT, explain that your list was taken and used without your permission or attribution. Show them the side by side of your list with the now AZ CERT list. Propose an outcome that matches your level of concern and that will satisfy you (pull down the list, give proper attribution, give you 25 cents per download, etc).

Keep it in perspective - go bag lists are literally a dime a dozen, however you are alleging misuse of actual pictures of *your* go bag on AZ CERT's website. That's enough to at least trigger an apology, and proper attribution.

Wait a little bit for a response, say 3 days. If they are standup, they will at least acknowledge your list. What was done probably wasn't done by anyone witting at AZ CERT, most likely by a member. Whoever kyped your list may not even be aware of the idea of giving credit to its original author. In a small and mostly immaterial way, AZ CERT is most likely as much a 'victim' in this as you are. They remain responsible though for repairing the harm.

If you don't get a reply or satisfaction, send your email to the county prosecutor's office. The County Prosecutor is also an honorable guy, and won't think less of anyone for alleging copyright violation by a quasi-governmental agency in his jurisdiction. But crime being a growth industry, it will be difficult to find resources to address your copyright violation. Be patient, or call around and find a human being in the prosecutor's office - ask for the person who handles intellectual property theft or receives civil claims against the county. Anyway, you should be able to safely travel through the county regardless of the outcome, no one will come at you for doing damage to AZ CERT's mission or such nonsense. Frankly, any sheriff who steps into this issue and could actually threaten someones movement through his county over a copyright violation is not all that honorable in my book - he's a kook. But ordinarily, you should resolve this with a reasoned email to AZ CERT in the first place.

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#179652 - 08/18/09 02:38 PM Re: Stolen web page - what would YOU do? [Re: NightHiker]
Compugeek Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 392
Loc: San Diego, CA
A new guy's 2 cents:

I know I'm new here, nor am I a lawyer, but I have done a LOT of reading about copyright law as a result of a parallel incident.

Posting something on the internet does NOT make it public domain unless you explicitly say so. If you created it, you have full copyright from the moment you create it. The only exception is if you post it somewhere that the act of posting gives someone else rights over it.

In your shoes I'd go directly to the head of the unit, via telephone if possible. They may not know it is stolen.
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#179653 - 08/18/09 02:45 PM Re: Stolen web page - what would YOU do? [Re: Compugeek]
KG2V Offline

Veteran

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
BTW, they didn't retype my page - they took a snapshot, with my graphics, my last changed date, my layout, everything!
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73 de KG2V
You are what you do when it counts - The Masso
Homepage: http://www.thegallos.com
Blog: http://kg2v.blogspot.com

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#179659 - 08/18/09 03:34 PM Re: Stolen web page - what would YOU do? [Re: KG2V]
KG2V Offline

Veteran

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
They got back to me - apologized - said it was given to them by one of their members, and they thought it was the members page, and that it has been removed

I have told them that all they have to do is give me credit in the link, and they can freely have the page
_________________________
73 de KG2V
You are what you do when it counts - The Masso
Homepage: http://www.thegallos.com
Blog: http://kg2v.blogspot.com

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#179669 - 08/18/09 05:10 PM Re: Stolen web page - what would YOU do? [Re: KG2V]
Todd W Offline
Product Tester
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 1928
Loc: Mountains of CA
Glad they got it taken care of.

I would have contacted them like you did asked them to remove it or reference me... if that doesn't work you go to their web host and tell them they are using (C) content w/out permission. If that doesn't work go to their host's dedicated server provider and complain there... they WILL listen wink I've been on both ends.

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Self Sufficient Home - Our journey to self sufficiency.

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#179672 - 08/18/09 05:50 PM Re: Stolen web page - what would YOU do? [Re: Todd W]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
For future reference:

Compugeek is correct: "Posting something on the internet does NOT make it public domain unless you explicitly say so. If you created it, you have full copyright from the moment you create it. The only exception is if you post it somewhere that the act of posting gives someone else rights over it."

But this is NOT correct: "But if you pitch a complaint all they have to do is change the page slightly, as in the order of contents, make some other minor changes, and they have essentialy stolen your product without stealing it."

This fallacy is common in the art industry, as I have experienced. Commercial designers are fond of saying that if you make a 50% change, copyright laws do not apply. Well, YES, they DO apply.

Original design or text is copyrighted the moment it is transformed from your brain to any media.

It doesn't matter if they add or delete some text or photos, it doesn't matter if they flip photos or drawings over, it doesn't matter if they change the colors, or make any other changes. THE MATERIAL BELONGS TO YOU.

If you want to use someone's work (text or artwork, etc) as part of yours, you have to ask for and receive permission in writing from them to do so.

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#179673 - 08/18/09 05:56 PM Re: Stolen web page - what would YOU do? [Re: Todd W]
Nicodemus Offline
Paranoid?
Veteran

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 1341
Loc: Virginia, US
I'm glad the issue was resolved to your satisfaction.

As a Graphic Designer/Illustrator with an online portfolio I run into this problem quite a bit. Most of the time it's resolved without much hassle, but there have been a few occasions where it ha caused me a great amount of trouble and anguish.

About 50% of the time, as you had happen, I've had problems with one person taking the material I created to give it to a third party who may not have known it was stolen. In those cases I just inform the person of the infraction and let it go as long as they're not making money on my work. I will also tell them they must immediately stop using my work unless they purchase the rights and give proper credit.

The other cases have been willful theft, and in these instances it can get quite nasty.

I've also been the third party who was given someone else's work to incorporate into a project. It's usually pretty obvious when it happens, and when I am aware I will inform the person that I can't legally do what they want unless they purchase the rights to the Photo, artwork, illustration or otherwise get permission.


Edited by Nicodemus (08/18/09 06:02 PM)
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"Learn survival skills when your life doesn't depend on it."

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#179675 - 08/18/09 06:12 PM Re: Stolen web page - what would YOU do? [Re: Nicodemus]
Nicodemus Offline
Paranoid?
Veteran

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 1341
Loc: Virginia, US
Hmm... I'll also own up to the fact that it could be argued that my Avatar here is a copyright infringement even though I created it in Illustrator as an editorial commentary on survival gadgetry. Even so, if Warner Brothers sent me a letter I'd take it down with no argument whatsoever.
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"Learn survival skills when your life doesn't depend on it."

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#179710 - 08/19/09 12:17 AM Re: Stolen web page - what would YOU do? [Re: KG2V]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
A saner, safer person would suggest lawyers. I'm going to suggest mercenaries. smile

Seriously, a good cease and desist is a nice opening shot across the bow. It is your web page, and the copyright is yours.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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