Sorry, I missed the "new" part. It would never occour to me to buy a new car. Cash for clunkers or not, you lose something like 60% of the value in the first year. I'd rather buy a used guzzler and use the money I saved for gas.

BTW, I think I meant the Safari as the GMC equivalent.

I guess I'm just impressed by how much room they have compared to all the other cars we looked at. They are almost like some of those newer lunchbox-on-wheels types that look tiny on the outside but are big on the outside.

On the other hand, I was on the verge of going for a 12 passenger full size van to my perspective is a bit skewed.

Turns out the comparison is, if not apples to oranges, something like oranges to tangerines or tangerines to tangelos.

I don't actually know the difference between a tangerine and a tangelo. Will Google that next.

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/fueleconomy/articles/119812/article.html


Explained: 2008 EPA Fuel Economy Ratings
Lower gas mileage numbers don't mean thirstier cars

By Dan Edmunds, Director of Vehicle Testing

Date Posted 03-07-2007

Starting with 2008 models (which went on sale as early as January 2, 2007), the methodology for measuring and reporting fuel economy has been reworked to make published miles-per-gallon (mpg) ratings more accurate.

The EPA-specified testing and reporting method has not been updated since 1985. Since then, a lot has changed.

Hybrids take the biggest hit

Taken together, the higher speeds, use of air-conditioning, hot and cold temperatures and more aggressive acceleration and braking will bring 2008 ratings down. According to the EPA, city ratings will drop about 12 percent, with some losing as much as 30 percent. Highway ratings should fall an average of 8 percent, but could drop by up to 25 percent.

AH!!!

That explains a LOT. Thanks.

And the Kia guys - we'll be seeing them tonight I think.

Yea,the testing method has changed. This means a new vehicle that's listed at 22 highway, for example, would have been listed at, say, 24 on the old scale. In fact, the new scale is somewhat conservative in my experience, as my truck and my friends expedition both often exceed their listed mileage. My truck was rated at 19 highway under the new scale, and I have no problem getting 21-22.

Have you tried locating a dealer in the not so immediate area?

I did some research on the internet a few years ago and found a car two states away. I saved a significant amount of money and also cut the wait time by several months by purchasing at a dealer about 550 miles away. They picked me up at the airport, bought me lunch while they did the paper work and I drove home in a new car.

Also, my wife was reluctant to get another minivan, but it was the most practical choice so we bought her an '07 Sienna. Now she can't heap enough praise on it. The handling is soft enough that it would drive me nuts if it was my daily driver but other than that I've been very happy with it too. The wife tells me she's not giving it up even if we win the powerball. lol.

On the subject of gas mileage...

The '07 Sienna that I bought my wife had an EPA window sticker showing 19 city / 26 highway mpg. Toyota made no drive train changes from 2007 to 2008 but the testing methodology changed. The result was a window sticker on the 2008 models that show 17 city / 23 highway mpg.

Ours runs 18 to 19 mpg in town but we ALWAYS get 27 mpg or better on the highway. The highway miles are typically at 75-80 mph with the cruise and a/c on. We've topped 30 mpg on the highway on an extended trip at slightly slower speeds.

I agree about the conservative mileage ratings. I just bought a 2010 Toyota Corolla, so far I am at 37 MPG and that is combined city and highway mileage. The official rating is 28 city and 34 highway.

I do however own 2 other vehicles, both 2004 models and the mileage rating is right at the real mileage. A Chevy that gets 21 MPG highway and a Land Rover that gets around 16 MPG. So far the Corolla has not needed a fill up, although I am having a hard time adjusting to a car so low to the road

Are you opposed to Dodge Grand Caravans. We have the stow & go feature that drops the seats flush, no need to take out. Great option. The newer model comes with a swivel option but have to manually take out. Not sure if both are options right now.

The one trick with Dodge vehicles, if this is a concern and in Arizona it is, their a/c systems suck. We drove 5(?) vans all exactly the same with varying a/c ability. I literally sat in the back seat as we drove around.

My Charger has pathetic, almost non-existent air in the back for the size of the vehicle.