The second knob is a second lock that slides up to cover the liner lock and prevent it from moving sideways.

The original Air Ranger does not have this second lock, and is also significantly smaller in size--blade length is 3.25" I think. Of course the Air Ranger II came out right after I bought my Air Ranger, so I went ahead and got both.

BTW, where did you get the black Air Frame? I've only seen the original tianium handles and the later brushed aluminum, never black. It looks really nice!

Oh yeah, and I never carry a knife to a rock concert for the possibility of getting into a fight. It's more of a peace of mind thing for if some disaster should strike the venue. I used to work on stage crews, and with all those wires and ropes around, not to mention bizarre stage setups, if one of those things were to come down, or if you needed to leave the building in a real hurry, you might need to cut your way through something...inanimate, hopefully...

>>BTW, where did you get the black Air Frame? I've only seen the original tianium handles and the later brushed aluminum, never black. It looks really nice!<<

Thanks. I think it is a good looking knife (at least until the black finish abrades off here and there, or chips, or...), but I think I would have preferred the Ti.

I sent you a private message (on this board) with the contact info for the vendor I bought mine from. Would have made it more public, but he only has one left, and it's a limited editiion...

>>h yeah, and I never carry a knife to a rock concert for the possibility of getting into a fight.<<

Of course- that was sort of the point I was trying to make. I was in an altercation, and it never came to mind... on the other hand, I sort of hope it would, if, say, I was present when someone opened fire on innocents, and there was an opening... but the scenario is unlikely, and weapon use is at most secondary.

I suspect that we're not going to reconcile our viewpoints on this forum- and it's probably not the place.

>>If you identify the presence of a weapon before it comes into play, it's easier to keep it out of play than to remove it from play once it's been assessed. That applies to good guys and bad guys.<<

I guess my thought is that if you spot a knife on me, you have not identified a threat, as I am not going to be one. If you don't spot a knife on someone else, you have not eliminated them as a threat, they still could be carrying anything. And just because a "bad guy" has a knife doesn't mean that that's what he'll use. Seems like very iffy information at best.

>>Bad guys make their decisions on who to attack based on lots of things (body language, eye contact, awareness level of the intended victim) but rarely on the presence, or lack thereof, of weapons.<<

Frankly, I find that very hard to believe. Can you cite a source for that info?

I would suspect that criminals are using "body language, eye contact, awareness... " as gauges of the likelyhood of real resistance- and being armed is fairly convincing evidence in that direction. If it's "rarely" a factor, I suspect it's because people are rarely openly carrying weapons.

>>The role of the knife, defensively speaking, is not to allow you to say "get back or I'll cut you" but rather to say "get back or I'll cut you, again". The knife is more useful to you if its presence is not known to the bad guy until it is in use.<<

There is no way to talk about past altercations to any extent without sounding like a jerk, but twice, that I remember, this has not been the case in my personal experience. Twice, showing that I was armed and willing to resist caused an assailant to leave me alone (once after a lengthy verbal harange) and prevented me from having to use the knife- which I consider a perferable outcome. In both cases, I'm sure that if I hadn't shown it, I would have had to use it. Once having a knife stopped a guy who was dragging his wife accross the parking lot by her hair. And at least once, when I was a young jerk, it didn't work, and I got cut... facing the situation when I probably should have run.

It's not an easy call. Obviously, those with overwhelming force on their side (numbers, firearms) are not going to be dissuaded, and concealment until use is the better option.

As an absolute statement, though, what you've said is simply not correct.

>>Of course, carrying a knife, as a defensive option, without training is not advisable. The knife is every bit as much a lethal tool as the gun and subject to the same restrictions on use.<<

It is certainly a potentially lethal tool, and not to be taken lightly... but c'mon. "Every bit as much a lethal tool as the gun"? Check some hospital statistics- it's nowhere close. If that were true, firearms would never have caught on in the first place.

These "authoritative", absolute, but obvious overstatements are not helping your case.

What I think you're really saying is that WE shouldn't be dealing with such things, that it all should be left to trained professionals... who generally aren't there- can't be- when the stuff goes down, but oh, well. Tough for us.

For decades now we've had the entire world telling us constantly that we cannot defend ourselves, and that we should never try.

The world is not a better place now for that attitude.

Perhaps it's true that we cannot, but hearing it from those with a vested interest in continuing to "protect" us has the flavor of asking a barber if you need a haircut... and in the post-Todd Beamer age, it's a LOT more obvious to a lot of people that there are times when we should try- when we must try- whatever the cost.

PL,

I agree. We probably won't reconcile our views and this isn't the place. I'll clarify a couple of things and drop it.

I'm no longer a cop and absolutely am not trying to put across the message that private citizens should rely on law enforcement personnel for their safety. My comment about the knife being a "lethal tool" was not meant to refer to its lethality (as compared to guns), but rather its status under the law (using a knife as a weapon is viewed in the same light as using a gun, ie both are considered "lethal force").

Gomez

The wonderful thing about the Constitution of the United States is that it, ostensibly, leaves the use of lethal force to the discretion of the soverign citizen--from this right all other rights under the Constitution derive. Unfortunately, there have been those, and are those, who would rather live in fear of their own soverign power and furthermore, feel than all other "citizens" should have that fundamental soverign power removed from them by federal fiat.

Which is not to say that the indiscriminate use of lethal force should not go unpunished...still, it is my right to decide when lethal force is justified--only a jury of my peers in a court of law can gainsay that decision.

If you can still find a copy of it, read Lynn Thompson's treatise about knives in a fight. Willingness to deploy and speed of deployment beats superior training every time. Of course, training is still a Good Thing.

No disagreements there; thank you for the clarification.

how about one of these [img]http://www.sogknives.com/minxrvis.htm[/img] kept in a pne wallet, like the ones mont blanc do, the knife is low on the clip and it shouldn't show, just put a nice enough pen in the pouch to justify it and nobody should ask any quiestions, they'll just assume that its another expensive pen.

Sorry for the delay in my response; work does interfere sometimes! :-)

I wouldn't worry about the garters showing--unless you decide to moon someone!

You mentioned, I believe, that you want a flat knife. Consider the Spyderco line, then. The current Delica & Endura models, with the clip removed, are approximately 5/16s of an inch (+/-9mm) in thickness, and are incredibly "big" cutters for their small size & weight. If you want stronger, get the same models in all stainless steel--at a weight penalty, though.

Also, have been re-reading this thread, & thinking on it, too. I'd like to suggest you explore Bowen belt-buckle knives. Their web site is http://www.bowenknife.com. Over the weekend, I wore mine again, and it dawned on me that it could be the perfect answer for you in your new environment.

I've owned one for over 25 years, & have never been "made" while wearing it. They're available in wide & narrow versions, with the narrow being best for "dress" clothes--and maybe for business casual, too. I usually wear mine with blue jeans or shorts.

Two pieces of advice, both from experience:
1: Should you decide on one, get the single edged version. It's more useful for everyday things than the double-edged version. It's a bit difficult to scrape peanut butter from a jar with the D/E version.

2. Don't go through a metal detector with it! At our local airport, about 1985, I forgot I had it on, & did so. At that day & time, the worst that happened was that I had to lose the knife. :-( (To add insult to injury, it never got turned in to the property room, and no official report was made--the guard simply kept it. I know because I had it checked out.) Be aware that they may be considered concealed weapons--especially the D/E versions. Don't know how successfully the argument can be made that they're really in plain sight, if you know what you're seeing. My lawyer (an old High School friend--got his after seeing mine) wears one, but not on court days.

Anyway, just my further thoughts.

Thanks for a good thread.

David

Yet again, I owe everybody an apology for not responding to messages for awhile. I've been putting in some 12 and 13 hour days...

Thanks to all who offered excellent suggestions in this thread.

Some of them I'm still following up on, but, so far, two things have worked best.

It turns out that some "inside" front pocket change pockets do work for a clip- and a few do not. However, the suggested solution of a simple safety pin through the pocket layers works very well indeed- well enough to consider using it even if there is a change pocket. With the knife in place along the front edge of the front pocket, putting a largeish safety pin vertically, about half an inch away from the knife and about two-thirds of the way up, makes a nice little "custom" sleeve for it that both keeps it out of the way, out of sight, and still easily accessible.. even a surprisingly large knife. I do have to be a little careful if my knees are up- say, in a low chair or in the back seat of a small auto- but no solution is absolutely perfect. Especial thanks to David for the suggestion- if others mentioned it as well, thanks, sorry I missed mentioning you.

Two safety pins, or, to get really extravagant, a line of stitching, would also isolate the knife from pocket-junk wear, and allow use of the rest of the pocket for other (infrequently used- it's a little tight) items. For me, the lighter fits that description, and possibly the Leatherman Micra.

Thanks for the suggestion- I've got a pretty good folder solution right now, but I'll take a look at it.

I remember the Bowen belt-buckle knives available in the '70s... then it was only what I now assume is the "wide" version, and they were fairly easy to spot- the website you pointed out looks to be much more sophisticated. With the "rounded" option and various belts, it is probably much harder to spot. The "money belt" adds other "carry" possibilities.

Interesting. Thanks again.