But Montag's firechief boss Captain Beatty makes for quite a convincing argument here against this point of view. And look what happened to that poor woman!! The firemen didn't have a problem getting a fire going either.

Darn, that probably means your going to have to read the book if you haven't done so already.

http://www.amazon.com/Fahrenheit-451-Ray...644&sr=11-1

Although there are plenty of torrent files available for the whole film which are easily downloaded.

I love to read. One day a few years ago i realized in the Barnes & Noble that they had all these 'famous books' posters hanging on the walls. I hadn't read any of them!

So I started and some I couldn't stand,
(*cough*Moby Dick*cough*)but most were damn good. They have a great 'works' display and it opened my mind to all sorts of authors I'd never read on my own. Count of Monte Cristo became my favorite.

I have been lurking around these forums for a few years now and have learned MANY useful ideas from the great wealth of knowledge that many of the posters possess.

I never felt the need to throw my " two cents " into the mix until I read some of the comments in this and a couple of other threads recently.

First I'd like to say to those of you who feel that the author of this book is in any way " stupid , ill-informed , not a good writer or simply another trashy gun-porn writer " I say to you that you are obviously woefully ill-informed yourselves. Mr Forstchen is not only a prolific and accomplished author, but is a brilliant scholar and one of the few authors in the world today that gets listened to and referenced on a daily basis in the upper levels of the government and the military. He didn't just decide one night that he was going to write a book about TEOTWAWKI he did exhaustive research about the plausibility and the probable after-effects of the events depicted in his book. As to those of you who question his writing ability, I urge you to search out any of his 40+ novels ( including several science fiction series that are considered tops in the genre over the last almost 30 years ) and actually read them. In addition to his novels he has written HUNDREDS of papers , reports , and short stories that have appeared in such diverse publications as Armchair General , Jane's defense Weekly , Jane's Intelligence Review , Naval Operations , Civil War Times , Scientific American and Wired. Some of his papers about the civil war and alternate outcomes of WWII and Civil War battles have been required reading at Annapolis , West Point and the US War College. For those of you who doubt his qualifications/intelligence I point out that he has a Doctorate from Purdue in History with specializations in Military History , The American Civil War and The History of Technology. He also holds degrees in Psychology and Literature. On top of his academic background he has worked as a merchantman , construction , land management and farming and on top of all that found time to teach as a Professor Emeritus of History and Faculty Fellow at a fine college in North Carolina. He usually chooses to only write of things he knows backwards and forwards such as in his newest book he wrote about a man who saved and restored an old WWII plane and used it to help the town out when they were attacked. He is a pilot and restored and owns just such a plane so he speaks from actual experience not just words on paper.

I firmly believe that his rendition of a post EMP attack on the US is not only plausible but it could end up being MUCH worse. Until recently I lived right outside Washington DC and had for most of my life minus a few years in college and the military, and I can only shudder to think what the consequences of such an attack would do to such a urban area with its hordes of people and lack of resources. I recently moved right outside Boston and though it seems a much quieter place it also teems with people unable to see past their own noses at what may very well be coming to this country.

Some of you postulate that his premise is flawed , and that the nations that are hostile to us are unable to perform the deeds he writes about. You are probably correct , but what everyone seems to forget is that there is a country with the will , the resources , and one of the most repressive governments in history still out there waiting for just the right moment to claim HUGE chunks of land in the name of "Peacekeeping" or "Aid in Force" and if the initial parts of the plan can be pulled off - we would be in NO POSITION to stop them. How hard would it be for one of the tens of thousands of Chinese freighters that are at sea every month to launch a DONFENG-11 ballistic missile over the US. This is a missile that uses solid fuel so its prep time is as little as 2 hours and its flight time to target depending on where they launched from could be as little as 7 minutes to reach a height that would affect the majority of the CONUS. Scary thought huh? What about 2 , 4 or 8 just in case some failed or where shot down ( by our non-existent Spaced based anti- missile defenses ) . Do you think we as a nation would have the ability to deal with the thousands of plane crashes , train wrecks , car accidents and all of the other catastrophes on that day along with the failure of the banking system , Social Security System, power grid , water pumping stations , Nuclear Power Plants , refineries , and all of the related bedlam in time to find out just who and what hit us and retaliate in kind? Or would we take our lumps and turn to our supposed " Allies" for help in trying to simply hold up the sinking ship?

Even if we only lost most of the post 70's vehicles and none of the Diesel Trains , and supposing we could begin to repair the millions of transformers and powerplants - it won't help - it would be over before we lifted the first wrench. If you can't feed , clothe , shelter and PAY your workforce - you don't have a workforce. I know what my priorities will be on that day ( God forbid it ever come ) but I can tell you this - I won't be reporting to work , and I'm pretty sure I won't even call them and let them know.

Mr Forstchen's book scares the hell out of me - not because it could happen - but because there would be nothing I could do if it did.

Thank you all for listening to my rant ( or whatever ) and allowing me to voice my opinion on issues , which is still the BEST reason to thank GOD that we live in the US.

- TheDarkOne

I was forced to read these at secondary school in English literature class. Some of it was pretty dull and heavy going.

Lord of the Flies
1984
The Road to Wigan Pier
The Catcher in the Rye
To Kill a Mockingbird
War of the Worlds
The Time Machine
Brave New World
A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man
Ulysses
The Adventures of Tom Sawyer
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
Moby Dick
Jane Eyre
Kidnapped
Fahrenheit 451
The Hound of the Baskervilles
The Merchant of Venice
McBeth
Hamlet
Death of a Salesman
Gregory's Girl

with some others that escape me now. (seem to remember - a World War One sitting in the trenches play as well as the war poetry of Wilfred Owen)

The human condition got to become a bit tiresome after a while, especially when you were expected to formalise a written answer to an exam question detailing the tedious psychological impairment of some fictional character who inevitably showed signs of racism, sexism, mental disturbance, political insurrection, blah, blah, blah....

Gregory's Girl was a good read though..

Problem is that Mr Forstchen came across as a Pysops media spook and quoting his CV doesn't lead me to conclude any further that he isn't one especially after the rantings of the second fellow on his website link video.

Deterrence was a greatly used word 20 years ago. Politicos used the word all the time, especially whose constituencies were/are heavily involved in the military industrial complex. The word doesn't appear to have an contemporary context anymore or perhaps it has just gone out of fashion like the word Plimsoll.

Well said - and totally correct.

I still am not sure where you are coming from though. Are you simply not a fan of the writing , the author or the premise. What about this book or author makes you stop and say - I really don't like that? I'm not criticizing , I'm simply unsure how to reply to a statement that must have gone over my head. Excuse this simple country boy I must just be missing your point - but if you would elaborate I'd love to try and understand better.

-TheDarkOne

Just a few points here: I am specializing in military history myself and am just about to submit my PhD thesis. I do not personally know of anyone in the military history community who would consider Dr. Forstchen "brilliant" or a major authority. In fact, I think he remains largely unknown, or known only for his fiction. I am NOT saying that to belittle Dr. Forstchen in any way. He has paid his dues, he holds his doctorate, but the bottom line is that he has focused on writing fiction rather than scholarly research. You can't do both in a single lifetime, it's one or the other. So he has made his choice and there is nothing wrong with that. But I am not quite sure how that makes him specially qualified to write about something as technical (and poorly researched) as the effects of an EMP. Also, if he does hold a degree in literature I am surprised by his writing style. Again, this is not a personal attack, just trying to show some of the problems. At any rate, we are talking about a work of fiction, not a scholarly/scientific peer-reviewed publication with all the necessary references and apparatus intended for a critical audience. Take fiction for what it is but don't try to make it something that it's not.

#2



That is a scary thought but no scarier than the fact that there are literally THOUSANDS of far more powerful nuclear weapons based on US soil already. All prone to accidents, disasters, even psychos taking control and detonating them over the White House. That, right now, seems more probable to me than an outside attack. Outside attack by whom and WHY? Why would China want to destroy the US? Would you really want to destroy your main trading partner? Would you really want to launch a nuclear attack on any world power knowing that you're going to get hit back? As for "rogue" states, they seem to be more of a threat to themselves than anybody else. Terrorists getting any serious long-range nuclear capability, well, NCBMs don't grow on trees and contrary to Hollywood, you can't quite buy one in Ukraine for a crate of beer. Then there is Russia, always "dangerous", but again, I can't foresee someone like Putin evilishly launching nukes on the US just for the hell of it. BTW, to make it really scary, if the Russians with their nuclear arsenal ever decide to do so there is no way of stopping them, you could only launch a retaliatory strike and enjoy the last few minutes left on this planet. So that opens a whole range of interesting questions. What do you do about a potential threat like that? Does that mean we should preemptively invade Russia just because they have the capability to destroy everyone else? Oh wait, the US has plenty of nukes as well so the Russians could reach the same conclusion. So where do you stop?? Who is the good guy and who is the bad guy, and from whose point of view?

The only thing I can say is that we're all just men and we can all get along. How many of you know a single North Korean? How many of you have met an Iranian or Chinese fanatic bent on killing every single American? Remember, what goes around comes around so don't treat people you know nothing about like enemies and "rogues".

Frankly, I'd much rather just sit back, do something productive instead of losing my sleep over paranoia or maybe read a good classic! Well, if were all together in the same room right now I'd just buy everyone a good cold beer/favorite beverage of choice.

Good point, just because it may not be the way we might handle that situation, doesn't make it wrong.