I have been lurking here for quite a while, but finally, I have a question for everyone, has anyone here ever actually built and lived in a scout pit?

I am referring to essentially a grave that you cover and camouflage so that you can remain low profile in a potentially hostile area.

I have built and slept in lots of shelters, and I am not claustrophobic (very much) but this idea still kind of makes me apprehensive.

I have a class coming up in which we will be building and sleeping in our scout pits for about a week, any building/use tips that I can take with me?

Here is an example of what I am talking about.

http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/shelter/scoutpit/ygas.html

Thanks in advance for your help.

I have. They aren't bad. I generally have an awesome night's sleep and I am/was a tad claustrophobic.

Tips: Build on high ground (otherwise your pit will become a tub)
-Use synthetic material to shed water from the roof (plastic sheet)
-If/when you encounter roots dig them way back and cut them off (so the sap doesn't pool into your pit)
-If you are long term pile a large amount of debris on top of the pit as typically they compress a fair deal (the debris on top that is). Otherwise they end up looking like shallow graves.
-Use a shovel not a digging stick and make sure the boards on the top are thick enough not to sag when someone walks across them.
-Buy/make a tiny periscope or dental mirror. The pits are soundproof and exciting one while others are present seriously defeats the purpose of all the sneakiness in the first place.
-If you are going to leave them for sometime ensure that you remove all the bedding from them. Mice will be every so happy if you forget to do this. "Honey, you're not going to believe this but someone made a massive underground cavern for us! And they left fresh bedding!"

Glocker36, you going to the Pine Barrens?

Not on this trip, I am taking a scout skills/wilderness awareness/advanced survival skills class near Ashville NC in the end of August and the scout pit construction and use are part of the class.

We used to hang out a lot in perk holes, essentially a trench pit dug with a backhoe. WORD OF WARNING: we covered ours with visqueen to keep it dry, and nearly suffocated ourselves once. Also, you have to get used to the idea that any little critter around is going to want to bunk up with you in the hole, especially if you are providing body heat and some creature comforts.

I have some experience at building Scout Pits.

The big thing to me (as in most things) is to take your time and be as thorough in the construction of the Scout Pit, as your time and circumstances allow.

I have used Scout Pits, even in areas with a high water table, for a week and been very comfortable.

If at all possible, I'd opt for something that requires less effort and takes advantage of terrain. Digging and covering a proper scout pit is a lot of hard work. Also, concealing the site is going to be difficult because you're going to disturb all the surrounding vegetation. You'll need to get all the dirt someplace else where it won't attract attention (huh? easier said than done). If you look at the last picture on your link the pit isn't camouflaged very well. Supposing you were in hostile terrain and there were hostile (and trained) people looking for you they would probably spot that one pretty easily, even easier with trained dogs.

Another problem is that a pit is, like you said, basically a grave. With generally just one way to get in and out, if any hostiles discover your shelter you won't be able to get away. Observation from inside the pit is going to be difficult at best and you won't know what's going on around you.

All in all, I think a natural cave, properly adapted and camouflaged, would be a much better choice if available. If there are no caves, making a concealed shelter in a group of large rocks might be another option, more so if there is heavy undergrowth. If there is no other way but to dig in you could dig a hole in the slope of a small hill or embankment, then camouflage the entrance. All of those shelters would guarantee better observation and probably better chance of escape should you need to get out fast and unnoticed. YMMV.

I slept in one for a week during a training exercise in the desert. Granted, we LIVED in the damned thing...I didnt find it comfy at all.

That is nearly impossible around here unless you wan to spend 5 hours or more digging it.... SUPER hard compact ground, granite, rocks, etc, etc.

fwiw scout pits aren't exactly leave no trace - if you're running a class, I hope you're digging on your own property? And replacing your divots?

Digging a pit is also a high exertion exercise, not conducive to most survival situations. As you say, they may be okay if you're hiding from hostiles or don't have other options to get out of wind or weather, but where exactly in your perimeter will you find hostiles or a lack of above ground options that necessitate digging a pit?

In the PNW I wouldn't trust a scout pit to remain dry - and creepy crawlies might invade, which would bug me out within a night or two. Closest I have come is digging snow out of a tree well and topping that with a tent rainfly - safe, dry, out of the wind and reasonably warm with the temperature below freezing. And it burned the poor Scouts who were digging snow caves all afternoon when I moved over 20 yards and dug out my tree well shelter in about a half an hour.

I think there may be more than one type of scout being discussed here.

Sounds like one is expected to wear camouflage and the other is forbidden to wear military uniform.

We called them "Spider Holes". They are never comfortable, but serve their purpose. Still cannot decide what is worse. Hard ground that eventually makes a good hole, or sand that almost requires the skills of a licensed civil engineer to construct and maintain.

If you think most of your time will be spent digging the hole, take a look at all that lumber that's cut to size. There's a lot of time and energy in building something like that.

Still, it looks like something I'd like to try, myself.

I've done debris shelters, lean-tos and similar, but nothing as stealthy as that.

+1 A scout pit is getting awfully close to being a fox hole. Been there done that!

Not trying to bump the thread up here. I've been meaning to ask, what do you do with the entrance hole? Do you pull something over it after you get in or what?

Thanks,
LW

Yes, ideally there should be a cover. Camouflaged if concealment is a factor. Obviously you will have a hard time concealing the entrance from inside the pit yourself so that's one thing to keep in mind.

During my second month-long deployment to Alaska we were required to spend a night out in an improvised shelter. One squad spent the better part of a day making a super lean-to, only to find out that they all didn't fit.

I showed my guys how to make a simple snow grave. Lie down, stand up, make it 2 feet longer and 2 feet wider than your imprint. Shovel the snow out with your snow shoe, then pack down what's left. We had air mattresses back then and insulated our sleeping bags with our extra clothing underneath. We put some sticks across the hole, draped our ponchos over the sticks and used some snow to pack down the edges. To close off the entrance, we used our wet weather jackets (no one carried the pants). Snug as a bug in a hole.

This was a really quick and dirty survival hole as it were. No telling how long we "could" have used them for. But for the one night, they were fine.

The ones I have constructed/lived in have a hole you slither into. The entrance is camoflauged, but you only go into/out of it one time each. You typically do thee under the cover of darkness, preferably with no moon. That all being said, you also have dirt you need to conceal. Top dirt is almost always lighter in color than the deeper stuff. You have to spread it over quite a large area to effectively hide it. Normally, these are constructed by 4 men-keep that in mind. It spreads the work out.
A quick, effective cover for the bolt hole is a poncho-but it has to be kept tight. Fluttering causes noise and, if it breaks loose, its a flag.
There really is quite a lot to think of with these. You have to consider shadows, terrain, orientation to your target, distance, etc.

Thanks guys,

I wondered about that although at the time I was really thinking about how you put something over the entrance more from a protection kind of viewpoint. I looked at the site referenced and they seemed to place an emphasis on using logs big enough that is someone walked over them, they wouldn't realize anything was under them. I started thinking about the entry hole and had visions of Earl Bassett and a prairie dog hole in the movie Tremors. Just made me wonder how to handle it.

Thanks,
LW