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#178463 - 08/02/09 11:06 PM Re: LAND/Shark Instant Survival Shelter [Re: PureSurvival]
TJ2009 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 07/29/09
Posts: 6
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: PureSurvival
Firstly, is a 22 foot boat that goes further than 3 miles from shore required by SOLAS laws to carry a life raft?[From the SOLAS website: "The SOLAS Convention in its successive forms is generally regarded as the most important of all international treaties concerning the safety of merchant ships.(emphasis mine.) The first version was adopted in 1914, in response to the Titanic disaster, the second in 1929, the third in 1948, and the fourth in 1960."]


Secondly, your reply sounds like the excuses that victims of boat accidents come out with after they have been rescued.

If a group end up in the water it is very hard to keep together, each person in that situation would really benefit from a PLB.[Safety tethers notwithstanding? If we can't clip together then we are probably dead already.]

At 20 miles out, the water is going to be cold. [We know this. I live in the Pacific Northwest. The water is cold at 100 yards out.] If no one notices your distress, you have failed radio coms and have to rely on the Epirb to alert to a problem; you could be in the water for some time. [Did you notice my remark on redundancy, specifically hand held vhf? Did you get the part where I mentioned travelling in a wolfpack?] If you have an older 121.5 Mhz Epirb you could be in the water for 6 hours before the message is passed to the relevant ground resources.[We carry a 406mhz unit.] You may be an hour’s flight time for a helo.[Anything can happen, of course, but the USCG patrols on land and air over the sportfishing grounds.] You are likely to be at least very cold if not floating face down.

Relying on NOAA and USCG reports can not be relied on. Weather reporting is very fickle at the best of times. [That's why their is no substitute for judgment. You also have to know what to watch for and when to turn back. This omission, not poor forecasting, was Kennedy's downfall. (Oops. Bad Pun.)]I think it was the Kennedy plane crash where one of the contributing factors was poor weather forecasts. There are plenty other examples of this fact too.

Cost and space is again a common excuse for not having equipment and another is my boat is unsinkable. If you can afford a boat you should be a able to afford the safety equipment. Space is a very poor excuse; there are always options available to you that take up dead space. [You clearly have no idea of the layout of my boat. Of course, I could tow a liferaft behind my boat.]
I’m not judging you, just highlighting the facts.[The facts as you see them. how can you possibly understand what is factual half a planet away?] At the end of the day the decisions are yours.[ As I said, it becomes a question of risk adversion and trade-off. Of course I could buy a larger boat...]


In summary, I simply asked a question and then provided a bit of background for reference. You failed to add to my knowledge base. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to install a missle battery in my backyard in case of an incoming asteriod or space junk.


Edited by TJ2009 (08/02/09 11:10 PM)

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#178480 - 08/03/09 08:13 AM Re: LAND/Shark Instant Survival Shelter [Re: TJ2009]
PureSurvival Offline
Member

Registered: 02/21/09
Posts: 149
Loc: UK
Firstly my apologies, a vessel longer than 45 feet or that goes beyond 3 miles of shore is a Class XII vessel of the Merchant Shipping Regulations and not a SOLAS Class XII vessel. So it seams in the US you don’t have to have a liferaft. The regulation says ‘US flagged yachts, no matter what there size, that are for private use only (recreation vessels), do not have to carry a life raft.

However SOLAS, which you wrongly state only concerns the safety of merchant ships. Has clauses in it for all vessels, including pleasure craft. The main area that affects pleasure craft is SOLAS V: Safety of navigation. Particularly regulations: V19, 29, 31, 32, 33, 34 and V35. There are some other non safety regulations else where.

TJ has all the answers, risk aversion x trade-off. And, is operating within the law. I sure hope he never has to put his plan in place.

The facts, at sea, are the same the world over.
Weather changes, often suddenly and a lot worse than predicted.
Vessels malfunction or break down.
Atmospherics interfere with coms.
People fall or get swept overboard.
Other vessels can’t see boats or people in high seas.
People in the water may not be able to reach each other, let alone see each other.
People in high seas may struggle to catch there breath and open their eyes.
In seas of 7C/45F people’s survival time is estimated to be between 40 and 80 mins.
Cold will have rendered them useless after 7 to 14 mins at 7C/45F.
An immersion suit would expand survival times to between 6 & 8 hours at this temp.
Larger vessels with more sophisticated equipment and trained crew may recognise worsening weather conditions and move out of storm track. Taking them away from small vessels, that may need their assistance at a later time.
Aircraft flight operations may be affected by bad weather; rescue may have to come from a surface vessel.
Even with GPS enabled 406 Mhz Epirb could still mean being in the water for several hours.


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#178508 - 08/03/09 04:10 PM Re: LAND/Shark Instant Survival Shelter [Re: PureSurvival]
TJ2009 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 07/29/09
Posts: 6
Loc: Oregon
PS,I didn't mean to start a flame game. Your points are all well taken and I learned something about SOLAS that I missed in my scan of the (many) pages of documentation. I'm simply describing a situation where there are many variables that you can't picture that help offset - and I stress the word "help" -the legitimate concerns you have stated.

I don't have all the answers. I am generally a "belt and suspenders" type erring on the side of caution. I think you'll agree that many active sports - rock climbing comes to mind - are inherently risky. I personally thing free climbing is insane but I have no technical skills to judge the circumstances where it is "reasonable". Hence my reference to risk adversion.

Be that as it may, I would gently point out that you essentially highjacked my original thread. Let's start over. I'm going to initiate a new discussion.

Cheers. And, Down the British.

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