Best swiss army knife for wilderness survival / hiking...

Looking to outfit my wife's belt with a nice swiss army knife for on the trails in the woods.

What does everyone suggest for this knife?

I was thinking the Forester
http://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-Swiss-A...7920&sr=1-1

But I`m not to sure.. the new designs have a much more rigid blade like the one in the rescue tool pictured here:


What would you select and why?

Maybe the one handed trekker.. looks like an updated version of the forester?

http://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-One-Hand-Trekker-Lockblade-Pocket/dp/B000687B44/ref=pd_sim_sg_5

I just posted this in the Carry a Knife thread, Swiss Amy Rescue Tool Review [url=http://equipped.org/shot_show_2007_knives6.htm][/url]




ETA Fixed link

The rescue tool seems to be lacking the Wood Saw... which is a seriously important tool for wilderness hiking

I carry a Leatherman Wave and a RSK Mk1 when I am out in the wilderness.

This is a question where you can ask five people and get seven opinions...

What should a woods SAK or multi have, IMHO:

At least one knife blade
Wood saw
Can opener

And if you carry a SAK, then a pair of pliers with wire cutters. Found hundred year old barbed wire the hard way and almost found a porcupine the same way.

The tough thing about picking a swiss army knife for another person is you don't know what features they like/require. For example, I wear glasses so I always look for swiss army knives with the corkscrew so I can carry the little glasses screwdriver. My brother, on the other hand, prefers the models with the philips screwdriver.


Anyway, out of the current models, the one-handed Fireman is my favorite.

It is similar to the one-handed Trekker, but it has the corkscrew instead of the philips driver [which allows me to stick the little glasses screwdriver in it] and it has a second blunt serrated blade, which allows me to grind off the serrations on the main blade [thereby giving me one completely plain edge blade and one fully serrated blade, my preferred carry].

I agree.

Your review is exactly what I`m looking for.

Thanks much!

I have several SAKs, including the one-handed Trekker. Its blade just feels too flimsy for my taste. The smaller SAKs feel better - like my Camillus BSA knife of old, but I almost never need can openers, bottle openers, or leather awls.

I'll agree with KR20.

I carry a Mk1 (fullsize when out camping/hiking; mini when at work and day-to-day).

If car camping (most of the time lately) I'll also carry a LM Wave and the Mk3 in my daypack.

If backpacking the Wave is too heavy. I'll usually carry just the Mk1.

Ken

I favor the Farmer....thicker blade than the standard models...just the essentials of blade, saw, out-the-front awl (perfect for firesteel), can and bottle openers.

No problem, I hope it's everything you're looking for.


On a side note, another great thing about it is the price. I've seen them for less than $40 online. That's within most people's price range for a quality multi-pupose knife. Unlike, say, a Leatherman Wave or Charge; which is a great tool, but at $70+ it's more than a lot of people are willing to spend.

I EDC an alox farmer as well. The perfect SAK to me would be an alox farmer with a locking blade and scissors. Now I carry the farmer and an executive on a key chain for the scissors. That's not a bad combo as the executive can be used around PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER..

Very nice pictures, and thanks for the feedback.

I myself have 5+ SAK... and actually stopped carrying them for my leatherman wave, ended up ordering the one handed trekker for the wife and if it's not what I think it is she`ll probably get one of the ones I already have.

Just a word of caution regarding the Rescue SAK. They are few sellers on Ebay that are selling fakes. They are good copies even have the logo, come with a case, box and paperwork that approximate the real ones, but if you compare with a real Rescue SAK the discrepancies become apparent real quick.

The sellers are generally in Asian countries and the prices are relatively low. I purposely purchased one so I could show some of the scout groups I work with, what to watch out for when purchasing a knife.

Pete

Report them to ebay.

Ebay does NOT like fakes.

They have (by others) been reported to Ebay and the current auctions suspended. They usually get to sell 2-3 knives before getting caught and then simply set up a new account and repeat the process.

Pete

Ridiculous.

I prefer my SAK with:

- 2 blades (1 locking, preferably)
- scissors
- tweezers

I don't use anything else in the woods. The new EVO knives are all nice, but they don't make one with the combination above. Thankfully I have an old Wenger Teton set up like this (they still make the model, but without the lock).

I've got the Victorinox Locksmith - virtually the same as the Trailmaster but it comes with a metal file as well as the wood saw.

http://www.victorinox.ch/index.cfm?page=183&lang=E

All the locking blade Victorinox's make for good cost effective and reasonably reliable multitools.

Personally, I'd go for the Wenger Ranger 78. I find the main locking blade and the saw are the most used outdoors and I prefer to have a Phillips screwdriver over the corkscrew.



I have the "old" Ranger version of this knife and am seriously considering upgrading to the "new" Ranger for the one handed opening main blade.

Also, for a good visual comparison of the Wenger Ranger 78 and the Victornox OHT check out he following post on MultiTool.org: http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,12362.0.html

That is darn near identical to the trekker but about 3x the cost!

NEVERMIND!

That was on their site, on amazon it's not even 2x the cost.

http://www.amazon.com/Wenger-Ranger-56-B...8994&sr=1-1

EDIT: That is the wrong model, but I've found the one you are talking about for $42.

This may be important to some too:

"OHT does include toothpick and tweezers that ranger lacks, however when transformed into soldier they are deleted."

Denis - I think you may have made me to drop my leatherman for the Wenger Ranger 78 when in the woods. I rarely carried the leatherman in the woods anyway but the ranger 78 sure looks like it would fit my needs for a "pocket knife". And be a PERFECT companion for my fixed blade Rat Cutlery knife.

SO I guess, I will be dropping my sog flash II and (occasionally) the leathermen when in the woods for the ranger 78, that knife has real appeal!

Okay, I have to ask . . .

What the &%*) are you all using those tiny little SAK saws for? I've never found a use for them. Are you making notches? I suppose that may be a possibility, but for what?

Any stick that little saw can cut, I can break more easily with my hands. So what gives?

I have the forester and the old one hand trekker.

My problem with the larger SAK's is the main blade. I just don't find them particularly sharp. And when sharpened they don't seem to hold much of an edge.

I second jaywalke's comment about the saw on the SAK's. not very useful.

I've used them a ton... I guess its more about precision work than cutting down a forest of finger thick branches But if you had to cut down a branch or log the size of your arm or leg you COULD it would just take a while

Regarding the saw, I don't know if I'd call it tiny exactly (the specs I linked to say it's 4.2 inches). I do think they've done a great job on the tooth design as it goes through wood quickly and without too much effort.

I can say I've definitely cut through branches that I wouldn't have been able to break easily by hand; this is especially true if you ever need to work with green wood.

I've found the saw comes in most handy for building things/bushcraft. Say, shelters, deadfall traps, spears/bows, ect.

However, I actually prefer a good file, like the one on Leatherman wave/charge models. It will still cut and notch wood (albeit slower than the dedicated saw), however it also works to trim, sharpen, and cut metal and other hard materials that the saw doesn't work on. Therefore, in my opinion, it's the more useful of the two, as it can be used in more circumstances.

Unfortunately, Victorinox's metal file isn't as good as Leatherman's, nor do they offer it on any of the One-Handed opening models, so I'm stuck with the saw. Not my ideal configuration, but I'm still fine with it.

That is true, they cut green wood GREAT... and the cut is nice, not a splinter with a rip up 1ft from busting it by hand.

When I was a kid I used the crap out of my SAK saw, and it was barely 3" if that... 4.2" will be pretty darn nice. We used to make shelters, dam up streams and small rivers, make things to trap fish, etc.. it really was used A LOT. Thus why I want one on a wilderness SAK. (Combined with a fixed blade for `hacking` the saw could prove useful for the finer side.)

SAK Rescue is exactly that. A rescue tool. It's not suitable for general woodcraft.

Regulars will probably have noted that I generally recommend a SAK Trekker or a Farmer if you are restricted to a non-locking blade.

I use both. I also own a RSK mk1. For a survival situation the Trekker is superior to the Mk1.

Sorry, Doug.

The only thing that you cannot do well with it is batoning wood.

But that's what a Frost's Mora is for.

Oh yeah I find the SAK saw to be hugely useful. Not for firebuilding or that sort of crude work though where just snapping the wood is the method.

I regularily cut wood for craft projects with it (like for spoons). Nothing worse than trying to carve something out of a splintered hulk of wood that the SAK saw would have gathered in moments cleanly.

I prefer a garden saw with larger blade for most gathering work but have used my SAK untold numbers of times when I did not have a larger garden saw.

I have never encountered a better tiny saw.

I use the SAK saw for precision cutting and shaping of wood, such as making deadfalls and snares and putting together shelters and camp furniture.
I like it and use it a lot, even if it takes a while to cut through some bigger limbs. I sometimes carry a bigger folding saw, Gerber or similar, but I always have the SAK with me.

Well, Well, Well.... I once built an entire family sized cabin with only my SAK!

Take that! !!

Spoken like a true outdoorsman.

One handed trekker came... saddened that the blade is only sharpened on one side (Forget the technical name)...

That's not too hard to take care of.

Right-handed? This from a lefty who despises scalloped blades.

All my other SAK have been both sides... is this something new? Or only on their larger blades?

Bahco laplander, SAK trekker and a Zippo.

if I can't build a shelter and start a fire with that lot, I deserve to be Darwined.

I believe it's because of the serrations, which are typically only done on one side of most knives. My guess is the same grinder that cuts the serations also cuts the plain edge, so it's easier and faster to just do everything on one side. Especially since that blade style has become the new official swiss army knife (which means they'll have to crank them out by the truck load).

Personally, I just take the serrations off and convex the edge. That's why I like the models that also come with a seperate serrated blade, I'm not really a fan of combo edges.

I really like that the serration is at the front than the back... much more useful that way IMHO.

I see what you mean about the blade and that makes sense.

This subject is always an interesting one and bears on a discussion I had at Outdoor Retailer this week. Let me pose a question:

Assuming you had a SAK which had a knife blade and a saw and you wanted only one other full size tool (in an effort to keep bulk down), would you prefer a file (with metal saw edge) or scissors?

Definately scissors, Doug. They come in more handy and are used more frequently, for precise cutting work for example.

Funny, I would rather have the file. I use the file extensively with my Doan block for shavings. Anything I need scissors for I can usually do with a knife.

First post, however I've lurked and learned here for years. To answer Doug's question.... scissors. But my dislike of all the SAK that I've seen is the liner lock. I'm a female and do activities around horses, trail riding etc. and if I had to use a knife in an emergency situation I wouldn't want to be fiddling around trying to close the liner mechinism, with gloves on and maybe holding onto a horse. I actually have the trekker version and keep it in my SUV and don't carry it for that reason. I've really never figured a way aroung carrying both a good lockback and a leatherman.

Three things -

First off, welcome newguy!!! Good to have you here. Have fun and join in often.

Second: I would tend to agree with Desperado, I believe at this point I would take the file.

Third: BTW Doug, thanks for throwing a wrench in the monkeyworks.

Scissors, but not the tiny ones, if it's the only other tool make it almost the size of the blade.

In all SAKs the scissors are as long as the primary tools.

Scissors are as big as they are, smaller the knife, smaller the scissors, larger = larger.

From a person who actually uses scissors on almost a daily basis, opening those pesky little stings on feed sacks etc, my favorite tools that I happen to have with scissors, are the micra and the juice pro, but the juice pro doesn't have locking blades which is an issue for me. I have a blast but it's just easier to go find a pair of real scissors than get those out of the tool. The only SAK with scissors that I've used is the executive and those are hard to use with any kind of glove on and just a little too small for my needs.

Gotcha!

I only have the original series SAK w/scissors my other SAK don't have the scissors.

I hope this helps.
When tools get too reduced in size they tend to become ineffective and turn into trinkets instead of tools.

I carry a basic knife and a credit card size diamond card as a sharpener. If I want a file I can put a small points file or one of the flat chainsaw files in my bag.
(The flat files for chain saws are meant for filing the rakers of the chain. They are usually 6 inch mill bastard files with safe edges. The files I get have a rounded safe end for you to hold instead of a handle tang, but they can be hard to find sometimes, some stores only stock the files with pointy tines for sticking handles on.)
For small emergency hacksaws I like the little 6 inch wire frame ones or the ones that go into a pistol like handle.

For scissors I have a nice pair of folding scissors (stainless steel) that were made in Japan. They are a bit bigger than the SAK version but much more effective.

By the way, the best full size general purpose scissors I have found are the ones made by Olfa. They are very sharp and stay sharp a long time.
Crash scissors are good too, if they are strong enough to work as light metal shears. The only problem with crash scissors is the lug to prevent you cutting the patient sometimes gets in the way for general use.

One of the reasons I avoid having files in a knife is the reduced effectiveness of too small tools, but another reason is files go dull and can not be sharpened. Diamond files like in my leatherman stand up better but they lack the aggressiveness or the smooth cutting nature of a metal file.

File vs. Scissors?

I would take the file without a doubt.

With a file and a knife I could accomplish the vast majority of tasks I would use scissors for. However, with only a knife and scissors I would have a tough time accomplishing tasks where a file or metal cutting/shaping tools would normally be required.

Basically, the file means I have a better chance of being able to improvise a solution to a specific problem with the multitool. Which, is pretty much the whole idea behind a multitool; it's a compromise of many tools that allows you to possibly improvise a fix. The greater tool variety, the better chance you'll find something you can use.

If you have to field sharpen something like a machete, improvise lures etc then you want a file. If, like myself, you consider the ability to cut fishing line and fletch arrows if it goes long term (I define long term as beyond 3 days) then you want sissors.



Purely as a point: Carrying just a SAK is probably not a good idea. A decent multi-tool should also be carried.

I presume that is because the Trekker's liner lock is push up rather than down?
With most liner locks you hold the knife in your right hand with the edge of the blade pointing towards your left. You push down on the liner with your thumb, and press with your forefinger against the spine of the blade to unlock it. To close a Trekker one handed you have to roll the knife 45 degrees (1/4 turn) clockwise so that the edge of the blade is vertical, facing upwards. Press the linerlock to unlock and exert pressure on the blade. Easy way to do that is to place the spine of the blade against your leg. Pressure must be gentle or you may close it on your fingers.

Also: Given the hazards inherent in horse riding, one would suggest that you would be better off with either a fixed blade (if legal) or a Benchmade Axis lock. Either a RSK Mk1 or a Griptillian.

*waves* Hello new lady!

The trouble with the Vic liner lock is that it was designed by a lefty, I think. They wanted one that still took both hands to close, because... they did. So their liner is backwards from every other liner lock in the world. And using a SAK with gloves is a pain.

Doug, I'd go with the scissors. The ones that Vic uses are basically long, sharp manicure scissors, so they have a lot of versatility, very "maneuverable". What they don't have is leverage and brute force- I'd back up any SAK or multi with a pair of EMT sheers and/or (if a SAK) a pair of pliers with wire cutter.

If I feel the need for a file and I'm carrying a SAK, I'd rather have dedicated one as the metal filings are a pain to get out of a SAK. Easy to get out of a multitool because you can open it up without the spacers between the blades. You can get a decent one for like three, four bucks, Sears calls it something like an ignition file.

Although I agree with this, in practice I'd expect to use scissors a lot more often. Which I'd prefer in a tool depends on whether I am focussing on every day use, or on emergency use.

It does partly depend on what else I've got. I carry a tiny Vic Rambler which has tiny scissors, and also an LM Juice which has more meaty scissors. I find the Rambler scissors much better for working with my fingernails than the larger Juice ones, and as I have longish nails that's crucial for me. Also, they are about as good for cutting plastic or paper. For a lot of domestic jobs, just about anything sharp will do in my experience.

The Juice scissors are much better at bigger jobs, such as cutting someone's shoe off or clothing off, as might be needed for first aid or rescue. I'd much rather use scissors for that than a knife (especially if the knife wasn't designed for the job and was pointy). However, as you say, a knife would do in a pinch and I probably wouldn't cut up my patient too badly by accident, so for that role the file would cover more bases.

I live and work in an urban environment, so a file that can cut metal is more important to me than a wood saw. It's especially valuable long-term if it can be used to sharpen another blade. So I guess my ideal 3-tool SAK would be blade, scissors, file; no saw.

If you do a lot of file work, you'll appreciate a file made from W-2 tather than the same stainless Victorinox uses for everything else. I vote for scissors.

scissors for me...

My EDC is the Victorinox Craftsman: http://www.swissarmy.com/MultiTools/Pages/Product.aspx?category=doityourself&product=53721; it has all the tools mentioned in previous posts except the cork-screw and mini-screwdriver. I wish it had those instead of the package carrying hook (on the back). A locking main blade would also be a plus.

A couple things I've noticed from looking at the new Wenger Rangers online.

First, they've changed the lock mechanism. It's still a liner lock, but instead of the slide release it's a pushbutton (the Swiss cross emblem is the button).

Second, the model they have with the scissors (Ranger 172) seems to be a departure from the traditional Swiss Army scissor, at least the ones I've seen before. It seems like it is a much more substantial tool (though I can't say first hand since I haven't handled one). This is what it looks like:

I'd rather the serrations be from the front to mid blade, and the nearest the handle blade be smooth.... that blade looks pretty hard to use any smooth part!!

I carry a Vic Ranger when out and about in the woods.
It's got a saw and a file plus scissors.

That's true, one more reason why I appreciate the diamond file on the Leatherman Wave. Stainless isn't really meant for files.