To PureSurvival-I take it you have Not lived in The USA! You write as if you have it All figured out,or perhaps,You only have you to,worry about!Have you ever Toiled, to own anything&Then have it taken from you?This is one of the Main states of mind,that is a constant,Before,During,&Afterwards of a Major Disaster,Even during/sustaining Injury thereof in many cases.I live in West Los Angeles presently,Bugging Out is Not an option,for Anything!I have lived in Georgia,Florida,Louisiana,Texas&Alaska,& have experienced Mother Natures wrath, in each of them.I have seen 1st hand how folks react,Before,during,&after Catastrophic Events.This is dagny's thread,she resides in the Metro area of Washington D.C.& It is a Quite unique area as far as the, mere Idea, of contemplating Bugging Out!What I am really attempting to point out is, the state of mind,during Evacuation/Survival in a Metropolitan area of The USA!WDC doesn't have the "Brotherly Love"San Francisco enjoys either,so relying on your neighbors,May Not be an option,not to mention the Horrible"Gun Laws".As Always,YMMV

Me and mine first, if we have room then we have room.
Simple as that.

> Good for you. For those of us with families, this isn't an option.

I think the bigger picture is that "I would resent having to leave supplies behind because my neighbors chose not to buy and maintain their own vehicle" does not mean people _have_ to choose to buy cars in order to be responsible members of the community. While you think not having a car is not an option for you, for some people it's a responsible decision "not to buy and maintain their own vehicle." Not having a car does not fit within the statement in the original post


It seems to be that some people think their rational decisions apply across the board to all people. Just as you object to people saying they get along fine without a car, others object to the apparent requirement that one buy and maintain a car to be worthy of aid in the event of a hurricane.

It appears obvious that different people have different needs and expectations and so not all "answers" are universal. Individual planning and decision-making seem to me to be good things, and coming to different decisions on how to deal with hurricanes should lead to a diversity of ideas, plans, and gear that will benefit the entire community.

Should the original poster find that all roads are blocked or that his vehicle has been wrecked or stolen, those who have no cars and who have the plans and gear to ride out the storm may be able to provide some assistance to those who remain behind. Let me turn it around: when you find you can't get out, should those who planned on staying and have the plan and materials to survive refuse to aid those who planned to cut and run? :->

So you live in the US; does that make it any different from anywhere else on the planet?

My mother was born in LA, my uncle lives in Florida and I have family in New York and yes I have quite a lot of experience of the US. Including storm chasing both tornados and hurricanes. I chased Floyd and Andrew and saw first hand the effects. I had friends that chased Katrina (and helped out with the aftermath). As a child I lived in Australia and lost my home to a Cyclone that made landfall in Yeppoon and also had to evacuate from forest fires that threatened our home.

In adult life work has taken me to many places in Africa that have been devastated by war or disasters from draught, floods, disease or famine. I also saw Yugoslavia being ripped apart so yes I have seen first hand the devastation to people’s lives.

The US does not have the monopoly on disasters but the US does have the resources and money to bounce back relatively quickly compared to some countries around the world, I have been to refugee camps that are over 20 years old and with little prospects for the people in them to go back to there homes.

There is one thing I have learnt, be a real man and walk away from a fight, heroes end up bleeding in the gutter. If the situation is that bad that bugging out is a option I will do everything in my power to get out.

You guys saw first hand the effects of Katrina and its aftermath, it filled your media, you saw the suffering which in many cases is still going on and you say bugging out is not an option? In some situations bugging out is the only option, so a bug out plan should be considered.

I cant really comment on Washington DC as I have only been there twice as a young lad but I do know it is a political and military target and being a metropolitan area has a very high chance of large scale civil unrest. For those reasons alone a bug out plan would be good idea.

My point was/is, not having a car is a lame excuse (just like other lame excuses) made by people after the event that did not plan or saw the clues or were too stubborn or lazy to bug out. If you have the will you will find a way to get out.

As for helping others bug out I can’t answer that, it’s all down to individual circumstances and your and the individuals needs of the person you are thinking of helping. In my case I would only help if it did not hinder my survival. I would try to give some advice to the young single mum that lives next door and make sure she bugged out and if the 4 meter coastal storm surge happened that they are predicting for the south coast of England happened then I would make sure that she and her daughter made it to high ground if the opportunity allowed.

The crawl fact is that even if you hesitated long enough to help your loved one you will perish with them.

I'd be surprised if those who were mindful enough of preparedness to plan for evacuating were not also better prepared for sheltering in.

I don't have a problem with people not having cars or people saying they get along fine without a car. In an emergency situation, I may have a problem with people who don't have cars expecting to catch a lift in mine. Or I may not. Can't know for sure until and unless such a situation arises.

A very good point Dagny but i think the fact you are on here and are thinking about the problem and you have a plan you are on the way to bugging out before others even think of bugging out. You just need to spot the threat early and consciously make the decision to put your plan into action. If you can do that you will be bugging out nice and early with the minimum of fuss before the panic of the masses.

If you can do this you will also be better placed to help someone in your community that you feel would benefit from your help, even if it is drive someone to a safer place and drop them at a red cross clearing station or the like, at least they will be there early and will probably be moved up the chain before the station is inundated with the panic of the masses.

In survival by having a plan you have made the first steps to being rescued. In disasters by having a plan you have made the first steps to surviving and limiting the damage for when it comes to rebuilding your life.

There are always possibilities. My plan is to accomodate my responsibilities first and foremost. Beyond that, it is at my discretion (as it rightly should be) whether or not to offer aid.

It certainly is better to have done some thinking, planning and preparing. Hopefully, if a crisis occurs, I will have now the instinct to prioritize basic needs: shelter-water-food. But the more you learn in this arena the more daunting it all seems -- evacuation or sheltering-in.

On a normal day within the Beltway, there is only a four-hour window (10:00a-2:00p) in which you can be reasonably hopeful (not confident, merely hopeful) that you are not going to run into traffic jams. The normal routine outgoing traffic jams -- bumper-to-bumper crawling traffic -- start around 2:30p and go until 7:00p.

The Potomac River cuts this metro area in half -- choke points at every bridge. And another complication, which I have not done nearly enough to prepare for, is that a post-9/11 emergency preparedness initiative in this city makes Pennsylvania Avenue a wall. In a mass evacuation, civilian traffic is not to be allowed to cross Pennsylvania Avenue. Pennsylvania Avenue is to be kept clear for emergency vehicles.

Those on the north side -- which is most residents and most downtown private office buildings -- will be forced to evacuate north through Maryland (bad neighborhoods between me and Maryland). This is not only a concern to me but will be a nightmare for a lot of Virginians who work in DC. One wonders how civilians will react if that policy is put into action in an emergency. On 9/11, many people left their cars at work and walked across Pennsylvania Avenue, several miles to their homes in Virginia and Maryland.

Given a choice, staying home is preferable. Evacuation in any scenario would be extremely stressful.

Just watch the next episode of "Meteor" next Sunday, you'll learn all you need to about evacuations and bugging out...;^)