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#176200 - 07/13/09 11:14 AM Re: Differences in Preparedness City By City [Re: KG2V]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
Well, I will get the D/FW area. I already typed it once, but for some reason lost my internet connection and the work product.

More later.
_________________________
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.

RIP OBG

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#176203 - 07/13/09 11:50 AM Re: Differences in Preparedness City By City [Re: KG2V]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2203
Loc: Bucks County PA
I have the Hurricane Evacuation Map from the NYC office of Emergency Management hanging right here on the wall behind my desk.

Get it here in the language of your choice:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/oem/html/ready/hurricane_guide.shtml

It's a really, really interesting map, as it puts places like JFK and LGA airports UNDER WATER in a Category 2 or better hurricane. Think about that for a moment. That's a scenario that has GLOBAL implications.

South Brooklyn is in a bad way no matter what.

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#176213 - 07/13/09 01:50 PM Re: Differences in Preparedness City By City [Re: MartinFocazio]
ki4buc Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/10/03
Posts: 710
Loc: Augusta, GA
On the NYC OEM site, it said they were the #2 most vulnerable city to a hurricane. I believe New Orleans was #1.

That should put things into perspective, but most people won't realize it until it's too late. A severe hurricane that aims at the city would push a lot of water into Long Island (assuming it's on the northeast side of the hurricane ). Let's just say there is no way to evacuate Long Island with the amount of time you have. Look what happened when there was an itsy bitsy fire on the Triborough Bridge this week.

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#176218 - 07/13/09 02:06 PM Re: Differences in Preparedness City By City [Re: ki4buc]
KG2V Offline

Veteran

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
Originally Posted By: ki4buc
...snip.. Look what happened when there was an itsy bitsy fire on the Triborough Bridge this week.


Throgs Neck Bridge - not the RFK (nee Triborough) - and there are still lane closures from that mess - I live about 2 miles south of the bridge
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#176223 - 07/13/09 02:34 PM Re: Differences in Preparedness City By City [Re: KG2V]
Jesselp Offline
What's Next?
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/19/07
Posts: 266
Loc: New York
Ahh, the New York Bight Scenario.

I currently live at Ground Zero for this. While not technically in New York City, I'm just over the Reynolds Channel from Far Rockaway, and the island I live on is supposed to be under 20 feet of water in any sort of hurricane hitting the NY area.

I'm a part of the local rescue squad, so I've seen all of the plans, stacked the cases of MREs, and know where the "high ground" evacuation areas are. However, my hurricane plans are very simple:

1) From June through November, check www.nhc.noaa.gov regularly.
2) When 5-day cone covers NY area: pack bags, gather documents, fill gas tanks, and in general, get ready.
3) When 3-day cone covers NY area: get in the cars and drive to one of two BOL's where we'd be welcomed (my inlaw's in the Catskills, and good friends in the Berkshires).
4) If we're late getting out, or for whatever reason it looks like we can't get through the backups in the city, we can abort to my parent's place in the Morningside Heights neighborhood of Manhattan, which should be relatively safe, and is definately high ground.

I am not looking forward to needing to test any of this, however it is a much easier decision tree than when I lived in Brooklyn and would have to decide whether to stay or go. Now, I'll go. No discussion.

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#176228 - 07/13/09 03:02 PM Re: Differences in Preparedness City By City [Re: MartinFocazio]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA

Minneapolis is sort of mellow..not a whole lot going on in the first place. when the freeway bridge went down a few years ago people jumped into help and in the winter pushing a stranger's car out of a snowbank is kind of a sport.it's by no means perfect and has it share of crime but on a one to ten-one being really bad--i would give it an eight..by the way our kids came in first in the nation for being the least obese.with all the new road clearing gear we have now i don't think we would ever have a "shut down the city" snowstorm again and thats about the only natural disaster that might come our way.

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#176230 - 07/13/09 03:05 PM Re: Differences in Preparedness City By City [Re: Jesselp]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
The Dallas / Fort Worth Metroplex has to be one of the least prepared areas as far as the actual population is concerned. When our annual ice storm that usually lasts one or two days hits, people act as though it is the end of the world. That grocery stores are wiped out of food, which tells me folks aren't even ready for three days.

If one could make preparedness a "Keeping-Up-With-The-Jones" type of activity, then we would be ready for anything and EVERYTHING.

Like Comms said about Phoenix, many that live here are not from here, or even the region. Folks who are not "street wise" to the local natural threats like tornados just don't understand the need to be ready.

D/FW also has an issue with a multitude of municipalities within the geographic area. Each EMS/Fire/LE department cannot communicate with the other, so there will be coordination issues to a choke even the best intentioned first responders.

I know that if a reason to hit the road ever comes up, I am glad I live on the outskirts, and my BORV is stored a little farther out. We will just meet up at the shop, consolidate vehicle loads and head away from town. Once clear of the D/FW congestion, then we will look to a destination.

_________________________
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.

RIP OBG

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#176234 - 07/13/09 03:32 PM Re: Differences in Preparedness City By City [Re: MartinFocazio]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
It's my opinion that the Houston city government is well prepared for disasters, though mostly because they've underwent several trials by fire. I was really impressed by most of their actions during Hurricanes Katrina, Rita, and Ike.

When N.O. was hammered by Katrina Houston officals immediately realized that they'd be getting thousands of refugees and sprang into action. They knew the logistics of tracking/moving supplies were going to be a nightmare so the first thing they did was call Walmart and request help from their logistics staff. It was a stroke of genius. Walmart supplied expert logistics people, software, and hardware to organise/move everything and it worked great.

A month later Houston was in the crosshairs of Hurricane Rita. People, having watched the N.O. disater, freaked out and four million people tried evacuating the city. There was some critizism about how that was handled, but most of that I blame on the people themselves. Houston has a well-thought out evacuation plan (run from water, hide from wind) based on your location but people just ran wether they were in a danger zone or not. There was also complaints that "Houston" didn't open up both sides of the freeway soon enough for evacuation. Considering many different county officals, police departments, and heavy equipment involved they actually did it very quickly. More importantly, a state-wide network was set up so that the next time reversing the freeways can be done with one phone call.

You may remember the scenes of gridlocked traffic from people evacuating. Hundreds of people were stranded along the road. The night before the hurricane was supposed to hit buses were sent out to collect all these people and take them to shelters. The city also sent vehicles out to help any infirm/handicapped/elderly people who wanted to be moved to a shelter.

Hurricane Ike knocked Houston power out for days, even weeks in some places. Mistakes were made, but lessons were learned. The main complaints were from people who weren't prepared. Those who were found it to be a big party. grin

All in all, we may not have the numbers/money New York does, but we are ready to roll with what we do have and we've had some dang good tests of the system. Given the choice I'd rather be in Houston than any other city I know during a disaster.

-Blast
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#176244 - 07/13/09 04:03 PM Re: Differences in Preparedness City By City [Re: KG2V]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
Originally Posted By: KG2V_was_kc2ixe
My BIG worry in NYC (besides being ground zero for 'man mad disasters') is what is called "The New York Bight Scenaro"

I know that NYC figures that if they are going to get hit with a cat III, they have to evacuate slightly more than 2.3 MILLION people, and I thing Nassau and Suffolk will be evacuating something like 1.5 million people at the same time. Given that there are exactly 8 bridges/tunnels off this island, and only 4 of them DON'T go to Manhattan...


Evacuating New York City, especially if it involves an evacuation of Long Island too, is a massive undertaking. I doubt it could be easily accomplished in two days.

Having left an NYC apt. in the not too distant past and living in a suburb, I've thought about potential large scale disasters. The two I fear most are a hurricane and a tsunami. The hurricane allows some time for preparation, even if it makes a relatively sudden change in direction. If a hurricane decided to proceed with it's eye comping up through the Narrows (the narrowest point between Brooklyn and Staten Island) would it allow enough time to evacuate the areas in danger, bsically all of Brookyln, almost if not all of Queens and Manhattan, as well as Staten Island and many other nearby areas? I doubt it. Evacuating Brooklyn itself would put and enormous strain on every mode of transportation out of Brooklyn, except for perhaps those heading east onto Long Island. The bridges to Manhattan and Staten Island would be overwelmed. Brookyn, at about 2.5 million people, has five times the population of New Orleans-pre Katrina. Queens has another 2.2 million, Manhattan about 1.6 million, the Bronx maybe 1.3 million and Staten Island a little under 500,000, about the same as NOLA-pre Katrina. Nassau and Suffolk counties on Long Island add probably another 2.3 or so million. There are a couple ferries leaving Long Island that do not require those who might be evacuating to go through NYC, but that would only allow ofr escape by a small number. A large scale disaster is probably going to leave a lot of New Yorkers unable to get onto land north of New York City.

A tsunami is possibly more devasting than a hurricane, if you believe some forecasts about Cumbre Vieja. It's a volcano on the island of La Palma, in the Canary Islands. Reportedly, half of the mountain IS GOING to slide into the Atlantic at some time. If it does it in small pieces over time, few worries for those of us in the U.S. If not, if it slides off into the Atlantic in one piece, the predictions say the U.S. East Coast is going to get hit with waves up to 200 feet high. The tsunami will hit in about 7 hours. There is simply no way most of Long Island and New York City can be evacuated. I will be fleeing my house in Connecticut as fast as I can, but I won't have to get too far to be more than 300 feet about sea level.

Other than scenarios invovling mega disasters, New York City is about as well prepared as possible. The City has put a lot of effort into preparing. When anything happens, small scale, the City is on it right away. The chances of something getting amplified due to in action are slim. The chances the people in the City's bureaucracy have not considered a possible scenario are probably slimmer. That and the actions of New Yorkers overall provide a level of comfort that I could not imagine elsewhere. During the blackout of 2003, New Yorkers dealt with it as well as anyone could ever expect. The took to the bars and socialized as far as I could see, and I was with them. And, I will never forget the things I saw walking out of downtown Manhattan late in the afternoon of 9/11 and the next few days. It was a city of stunned and mourning, but proud people seeking to help and be helpful.

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#176257 - 07/13/09 05:06 PM Re: Differences in Preparedness City By City [Re: Dan_McI]
el_diabl0 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/31/06
Posts: 301
Loc: NE Ohio
Perfectly safe here in Cleveland. Nothing left to damage. smile

_________________________
Improvise, adapt, and overcome

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