#175224 - 06/23/09 11:40 PM
Re: Old Nalgene bottles
[Re: Stu]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 08/15/03
Posts: 208
Loc: NE Ohio
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I just ordered a batch of 10 bottles off eBay...works out to about $4 each with delivery. I should be just about set for life now with Nalgenes.
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#175236 - 06/24/09 11:58 AM
Re: Old Nalgene bottles
[Re: haertig]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 288
Loc: Europe
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Here we go again: BPA chemical leaches from plastic drinking bottles into people
May 21st, 2009
(PhysOrg.com) -- A new study from Harvard School of Public Health (HSPH) researchers found that participants who drank for a week from polycarbonate bottles, the popular, hard-plastic drinking bottles and baby bottles, showed a two-thirds increase in their urine of the chemical bisphenol A (BPA). Exposure to BPA, used in the manufacture of polycarbonate and other plastics, has been shown to interfere with reproductive development in animals and has been linked with cardiovascular disease and diabetes in humans. The study is the first to show that drinking from polycarbonate bottles increased the level of urinary BPA, and thus suggests that drinking containers made with BPA release the chemical into the liquid that people drink in sufficient amounts to increase the level of BPA excreted in human urine. full article: http://www.physorg.com/news162133540.htmlLabeling this whole case as scare or BS is not counterargument at all. "I am not yet dead." or "I like Nalgenes, I will continue to use them!" type comments are not arguments either. I think some people defend polycarbonate bottles without evidence as if they are hard-core fans. What´s importatnt is that the research in this area continues. It´s good to keep of track of new studies.
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#175243 - 06/24/09 02:13 PM
Re: Old Nalgene bottles
[Re: raptor]
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Old Hand
Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 900
Loc: NW NJ
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Here we go again: BPA chemical leaches from plastic drinking bottles into people
May 21st, 2009
(PhysOrg.com) -- A new study from Harvard School... All this study says is that some BPA in the plastic seems to get into the water. Which we might expect. We still have no evidence if BPA is harmful to humans and if so, in what dosage. It should be noted that the concentration of BPA in their urine was already X ppm before they started and only went to 1.69X after drinking from the PC bottles. Also note that the article doesn't report what the actual concentrations where. For all we know, the normal level could be 3 molecules of BPA per thousand gallons and drinking from the bottles brought it up to 5 molecules. We could just as well say: New study shows that drinking water often results in increased levels of water in the urine. Exposure to water has been shown to cause drowning in certain animals, such as lab rats. Therefore we should stop drinking water. This is the problem with most "science" reporting and a lot of the science itself.
_________________________
- Tom S.
"Never trust and engineer who doesn't carry a pocketknife."
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#175246 - 06/24/09 02:49 PM
Re: Old Nalgene bottles
[Re: raptor]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
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Labeling this whole case as scare or BS is not counterargument at all. No one is trying to present a counterargument (at least not me). I think most are just stating that we don't care about this "study", which seems a bit over the top to me, the way it's described. If you don't want to drink from Nalgene bottles ... then don't. I won't try to counterargue with you and convince you that you should.
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#175248 - 06/24/09 03:19 PM
Re: Old Nalgene bottles
[Re: Blast]
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Addict
Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 612
Loc: SE PA
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Long story, short is I will not begin to need to shop in the ladies' department for undergarments, right?
Correct...unless you just like the way they feel. -Blast Oh my! Blast needs to hang out with guys more... All those females at home are starting to get to him!
_________________________
"I reject your reality and substitute my own..." - Adam Savage / Mythbusters
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#175254 - 06/24/09 05:23 PM
Re: Old Nalgene bottles
[Re: thseng]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 288
Loc: Europe
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All this study says is that some BPA in the plastic seems to get into the water. Which we might expect.
We still have no evidence if BPA is harmful to humans and if so, in what dosage. I think there is such evidence and it continues to accumulate. Just a few examples: Bisphenol A linked to metabolic syndrome in human tissue Bisphenol A linked to chemotherapy resistance Higher urinary levels of commonly used c...sease, diabetes Our Exposure to Controversial Chemical May be Greater than Dose Considered Safe If you search for BPA on physorg.com you will get this list: http://www.physorg.com/search/?search=BPA . I reccomend reading the articles. Also this is quite interesting. Quoted from this article: Study: BPA research might have been biasAmong government and industry experiments on lab animals and tissues, 153 found adverse effects and 14 did not. The majority of those reporting no harm were funded by chemical corporations, the journal Chemical & Engineering News reported.
Now an editorial in the journal's April 16 issue by Senior Editor Bette Hileman highlights a number of potential sources of bias behind the inconsistent study outcomes, including the use of strains of rats that are insensitive to estrogen and choosing batches of animal feed that vary widely in their estrogenic activities. And from this article: Better science, pleaseThe FDA has relied primarily on two studies funded by a trade association for makers of BPA. In April, an international consortium of scientists rejected the government's use of those studies.
These latest e-mails reveal an agency less concerned with consumer safety than with how the chemical's maker viewed the product's safety. This makes about as much sense as asking the oil industry to craft energy legislation. This is also interesting article (note it is older then some articles I linked before): Hot liquids release potentially harmful chemicals in polycarbonate plastic bottles All bottles were subjected to seven days of testing designed to simulate normal usage during backpacking, mountaineering and other outdoor adventure activities.
The UC researchers found that the amount of BPA released from new and used polycarbonate drinking bottles was the same—both in quantity and speed of release—into cool or temperate water.
However, drastically higher levels of BPA were released once the bottles were briefly exposed to boiling water.
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#175260 - 06/24/09 07:53 PM
Re: Old Nalgene bottles
[Re: raptor]
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INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
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From your link: Prior to boiling water exposure, the rate of release from individual bottles ranged from 0.2 to 0.8 nanograms per hour. After exposure, rates increased to 8 to 32 nanograms per hour.
Belcher stresses that it is still unclear what level of BPA is harmful to humans. He urges consumers to think about how cumulative environmental exposures might harm their health.To put things in perspective 1 nanogram = 0.0000000000022 pounds or 0.000000000001 kg for our non-American readers. That's eleven zeros to the right of the decimal point. Let's say I fill my 1 liter Nalgene bottle with boiling water to keep my feet warm overnight. If the water in my bottle remained boiling all night long (say eight hours) and then I slammed the whole liter of water, worst case is I would imbibe 256 nanograms of BPA which is 0.00000000056 pounds of BPA. Now if we look at O'Connor's & Chapin's often-quoted paper on the xenoestrogen effects of BPA we see he had to give dose of 1.5mg of BPA per kilogram of body weight per day for the entire gestation period to get any measurable effects. Hmm, 256 nanograms equals 0.000256mg, so someone would need to drink 5859.4 liters of BPA-contaiminated water per kilogram of their weight daily for nine months to suffer these effects. -Blast, Ph.D.
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#175262 - 06/24/09 09:35 PM
Re: Old Nalgene bottles
[Re: Blast]
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Finally, I am a
Member
Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 119
Loc: Utah
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From your link: [color:#000099]
Let's say I fill my 1 liter Nalgene bottle with boiling water to keep my feet warm overnight. If the water in my bottle remained boiling all night long (say eight hours) and then I slammed the whole liter of water, worst case is I would imbibe 256 nanograms of BPA which is 0.00000000056 pounds of BPA.
What Blast fails to mention is that for some of us, drinking water that had been anywhere NEAR our feet all night (especially after a long hike) could be potentially fatal. I think my wife really loved me right up until I took my shoes off after that first long hike...
_________________________
“Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival.” W. Edwards Deming
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