Interesting article about using your flashlights for self defense and how effective (or uneffective) it may be. I believe in the wild, animals may be less susceptible to being stunned... Great photos too of many lights including Surefire. Here's the link: Stun Potential: Using Your Flashlight For Self Defense?

Anectdotal I know, but I have used my own Streamlight Scorpion to dissuade aggressive dogs when on my evening walks in the winter time. Unfortunately it stays light forever here in the summer so I must resort to more lethal defenses when walking in the warmer months

The dogs just stop in their tracks and back off. Seems they don't like attacking that which they don't see

I have a good friend who lives in NY about 20 years ago since the laws are so strict about any sort of weapon carry she decided on a 16oz claw hammer and she still carries it today. The point being whatever works for you is what it comes down to, I would not depend on a flashlight beam though. I don't carry a hammer either but if I had to choose between the two to defend myself or family I would go with the hammer.

Jim

I've carried a surefire of one kind or another ever since they came out - both in corrections / law enforcement and in personal civilian life too. I know from use that the bright light can help distract and can provide a few second's edge in your response to a situation.

There is another fact too... in a defensive situation where the aggressor has been distracted by the bright light - you have a very hard impact tool in your hand that can then be used to add a strike (if or as needed) to add additional response to an aggressor's actions. It's all a continuum in the use of force... sometimes the light can be enough to defuse or deflect an undesired response but I'm always glad to know I have the option of a follow up with an increase in response level and an 'alternate' use of my flashlight.

I also many years ago had a firearms instructor who I and many of my professional colleagues had very great respect for flatly state it's far better if you have to pick only one to have a flashlight with your sidearm rather than an extra reload - ideally both but the flashlight wins out when you have to pick.

Paul in MN -

Not sure of the brightness but 6D cell Maglites are popular here with bouncers and security guards who don't carry guns.
A truncheon officer? Oh no that's just in case of power cuts.

I wouldn't put much faith in a flashlight for self-defense unless it were something like this (which I have an earlier model of):

Tigerlight flashlight and pepper spray.

My wife was stunned when she saw the price for the last LED flashlight I bought.

Does that count?

Sotto, I disagree - quite apart from the idea of stunning an assailant with a bright beam, in close combat a flashlight makes an excellent defensive weapon. Instead of smashing an assailant's nose or gouging his eye with your fist and fingers, you can add a debilitating hard knock to their temple, jaw, cheek, nose, eye, teeth, throat etc etc, any of which should give you time to cave one or both knees, which will give you time to get away.

All it takes is an attitude of aggression, and the will to beat your opponent. Since they're out to rape, rob or kill you, hopefully you have the will to end their efforts.

Though I am not one, federal agents are currently being trained on the use of 'combat' flashlights as a disorientation tool in urban settings.

I think if all of us think back to when we are goofing with our buddies at night or in a darkened room, a 100+ lumen light shined in the face is quite a shock to the vision.

That made me laugh out loud. I am in the same boat. Don't tell her about the new Stainless Nalgene I just bought. ;-)

You let your wife see the price of your gear? That's not survival, that's attempted suicide!
Just remember to leave aclause in your will that she is to sell your gear for what it's worth, not what you told her it costs.

Even an AA mini maglite used kubotan style (fist strikes down as a hammer is simplest) will be devastating and you need a keyring torch anyway.
What other weapon can you carry in your hand, at any time and then say 'I had my keys in my hand and tried to push him away, people use torches as weapons? really officer; I had no idea!"
To give an idea of how much force you can get; the Surefire pen has a windscreen smashing cap.
The Sock

Over the past few years there has been a lot of discussion about the effectiveness of flashlights as weapons over on the Candlepower.com forum:


http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/index.php

When I was instructing at FLETC we taught that to have "dazzel effect" a flashlight needed a minimum of 13,000 candlepower. No idea what that translates to in lumens. More is always better. While it was not a true "stun" it would "dazzle" and cause an auto response to squint or close the eyes, and look away even if only for a moment.
Is that the idea they refer to by "stun factor"?

Yea, that is what they refer to. The "dazzling" effect can give you the upper edge in a fight, or give you that second or two head start to get away. It's a small advantage, but it's better than no advantage. Now, when combined with other techniques (like kubotan-style strikes or firearms practice) it has shown to be especially effective.

Now, as far as candlepower vs. lumens, they're two different form of measurement. Lumens measures the lights total output, candlepower measures the brightness of a particular spot of light. They aren't really comparable measurements. Think of a laser, it would be very high on the candlepower scale, but very low in lumens. Typically, lumens is the better measurement for a lights actual effectiveness, with around 60 lumens considered the minimum for an acceptable "dazzle effect."

Not to pick on anyone but the whole idea of self-defense flashlights really needs to be approached with caution.

I don't know where people get the idea that simply flashing your Surefire into the bad guy's face will somehow make him turn and run for his life.

In the military/law enforcement field, tactical flashlights are thought of as an accessory to the primary weapon but never really a weapon in its own right. You can "zap" a bad guy with 100 or 200 lumens as often as you wish. Yes, it will be dazzling momentarily and might buy you a few moments, but that's it. In a shootout that might just make the difference between life and death if it means you can hit the bad guy before he can pull the trigger.

But if you don't carry a firearm, that same flashlight will be much less of an asset on its own at close quarters. From what I've seen, I seriously don't believe the light beam of your latest Surefire, Nitecore, Fenix or whatever happens to be in vogue these days will stop a determined attacker. Not by a long shot.

Worse yet, while you're trying to flash the assailant in the eyes you should probably be doing something else entirely. Like maybe running the heck out of dodge, looking for an improvised weapon better than your flashlight, taking advantage of terrain or at least getting into a fighting stance so the bad guy doesn't just tackle you to the ground like a rag doll...

IMHO the only real use of a flashlight in a physical confrontation is as a baton. Obviously, that's one field where a huge Maglite is at an advantage. Smaller flashligts (like AA-cell sized) have a lot less to offer in that department. Trying to use a small "tactical" light as a kubotan simply can't compare to the impact of a 2lb. Maglite. In terms of size and weight, a single or double AA-cell light is little better than a large pen - basically a kubotan. Read: not very effective and only really useful in the hands of a strong and well trained individual. (And let's keep it on a proper perspective: a small can of pepper spray is only marginally bigger and likely much more effective.)

In either case the flashlight is only a small impact weapon with a very short reach that adds a little weight to your punch. Nothing more than that. It might be helpful in a fight but it still means getting involved in a
hand-to-hand confontation where you'll likely get hurt, maybe killed, especially if you have no real training under your belt and your strength and conditioning levels are not on par.

From what I've read, a strobe at around 10Hz is a lot more effective at disorienting than a continuous beam of the same brightness.

I carry and use a flashlight regularly but I don't see one cracking into my top ten weapon list anytime soon.

Like others have said; a brief moment of disorientation might buy you an opportunity. I fear that those who buy into all the hype believe that an attacker is going to shriek in pain and grab their face as though they've been doused in acid.

I think the idea is to use the high powered 200+ Lumen 10Hz pulse flashlight to destroy the opponents acquired night adapted vision, remembering of course to keep one of your own eyes shut, then turn off the flashlight, open your closed eye which still has the night adapted vision then whack the opponent around the side of the head with the edge of the stainless steel bezel on the front of the flashlight knocking the opponent to the ground then to whip out the your Benchmade tactical combat pen, inserting it into the opponents nose then lightly tapping it further into the base of opponents brain with the bottom of the flashlight to stun the opponent... ... then use your BCB wire saw as an improvised garrote. Wrapping the wire saw around the opponents neck a couple of times then using the flashlight which was inserted into both the pull rings by rotating to maximise the mechanical advantage of the garrote.. ..

Of course it does highly depend on who your opponent is. Best just to put your hands up if your opponent was Eddie Stone with a dynamic hammer...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVz6rqpnMBY

On using your flashlight as a weapon, can I extend and elaborate on my earlier post on this subject:

"All it takes is an attitude of aggression, and the will to beat your opponent. Since they're out to rape, rob or kill you, hopefully you have the will to end their efforts."

I learned my first self-defense lesson from a girl in college, call her 'Darcy.' Darcy was a student at a nearby college, I was a student working whatever hours I could get at the local hospital, this one a 4-midnight shift as assistant in the ER. The police brought in an assailant in custody, with contusions to his right eye, his cheek, and possible skull and facial fractures, he had a concussion. His eye was bloody and pushed around in the socket and I remember thinking, whoa, that's really messed up. It had taken several direct hits with the heft of a flashlight. Darcy also came in, with a cut to her face and she had been hit to her head, bluing her eye. The assailant was on a gurney, Darcy came in under her own power. It was obvious who had won the encounter. The idea of a personal assault on a stranger was big news in this rural county, there were about 6 on duty cops moving around the ER. I assisted the nurse and doctor while they cleaned up Darcy, and was asked to stay with her around the cops, get her water etc. Some of them actually thought Darcy must have been the aggressor, the assailant was so badly beaten up, I remember someone mumbling about the colleges bring their problems into the town. The truth was Darcy was walking home from the library, along a dark street, and the assailant came from behind with a knife and started to pull her into the bushes. She reacted as she had been trained, with aggression - she reached back and grabbed his hair, and began striking him as hard as she could with the butt and lighted end of her flashlight around his face and eyes, which caused him to let go of her and drop his knife. She didn't stop hitting until he hit the ground, then she ran and called for help. She was still calming down from the event, her adrenaline turning back from aggression to weak-kneed shock at what she had done, she started to cry a bit. She said she was sorry that she was walking alone in the dark, but the town was such a generally safe place, that really shook her up. She told me the other thing she hadn't done right was she hadn't crippled his knee like her Dad had taught in self-defense class. But she done good obviously. And her little c battery plastic flashlight inflicted a whole lotta damage.

The good thing I did later was to take a similar self-defense class, which was made up mostly of women, most of whom had an assault in their past. My buddies actually ribbed me for attending what they thought was a girls class, they couldn't imagine the aggression that can get stirred up in a fight for one's life. It doesn't matter if you're male or female though, violence will hit anybody.

That is a great story and it shows exactly what self-defense is about. It sounds like the girl was trained well and had the right attitude to turn the tables. At the end of the day, that's all that counts.

The problem with this thread is a little different, though. Sure, you can use a flashlight as a fistload and it will do more damage than a bare hand. Pretty much anything can be used to hurt an assailant. A solid punch (if done right and lands solid), rock, trash can, chair, baseball bat... Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. But it takes real guts plus at least some training and/or physical attributes to fight back and successfully defend yourself if assaulted. Without that, no tactical flashlight is going to help.

The real issue IMO is that a lot of people fall for the hype. It's comforting to think that having a Surefire at hand will somehow give you the upper hand in a fight. Unfortunately, the average Joe is out of shape, has no training and all his tactical flashlight will give him is a false sense of confidence.

That's why I think it's important to point out that no such thing as a flashlight (or even a "tactical" knife... heck, even a gun) will make you any safer per se. Not without the right skills, attitude and awareness. As a self-defense improvised weapon, a flashlight has many, many limitations. If you need some light, it's great to have it in your pocket. But if self-defense is a major consideration you'd do well to look for a better alternative. At least that's how it is IME. YMMV.