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#172419 - 04/29/09 09:00 PM Re: Pandemic-specific items [Re: Arney]
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
Originally Posted By: Arney

Although you do have bleach on the list, a disinfecting spray would be convenient to quickly spray surfaces like door knobs and other items on a regular basis, especially in a sick room. Bleach works but it can damage things so I wouldn't want to rely solely on bleach as my disinfectant.


I've been using Distilled Vinegar and water (50/50) in a spray bottle as a cleaner for a while now and it works really well. (Be careful using it on tile grout and metalic surfaces) Also, plain ammonia diluted with water works well. And Pine oil (PineSol) is also a good alternative cleaner without the harshness of ammonia or bleach.

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#172423 - 04/29/09 09:36 PM Re: Pandemic-specific items [Re: LED]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3256
Loc: Alberta, Canada
With every respect, I'd suggest caution using alternative disinfectants. Some of them will work, especially in high concentrations, but you really have to do your homework with this sort of thing.

If we're talking pandemic virus, people dying all over, it's total war. Bleach in sufficient concentration kills everything. I don't care if it takes the finish off the floor or eats the doorknobs.

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#172425 - 04/29/09 10:05 PM Re: Pandemic-specific items [Re: dougwalkabout]
Jeff_M Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 665
Loc: Northwest Florida
HHS fact sheet:

Control of Pandemic Flu Virus on Environmental Surfaces in Homes and Public Places

http://www.pandemicflu.gov/plan/individual/panfacts.html

"This fact sheet explains how cleaning and disinfecting surfaces in homes and public places (like schools) can help to prevent the spread of pandemic influenza (flu). This fact sheet will be updated as needed. ... Clean and disinfect hard surfaces and items in homes and schools ... If disinfectants are not available, use a chlorine bleach solution made by adding 1 tablespoon of bleach to a quart (4 cups) of water; use a cloth to apply this to surfaces and let stand for 3 – 5 minutes before rinsing with clean water. (For a larger supply of disinfectant, add ¼ cup of bleach to a gallon [16 cups] of water.)" ...

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#172433 - 04/29/09 11:05 PM Re: Pandemic-specific items [Re: LED]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: LED
I've been using Distilled Vinegar and water (50/50) in a spray bottle as a cleaner for a while now and it works really well.

Let's be careful to distinguish between "cleaning" and "disinfecting". I use vinegar in a spray bottle myself to help cut soap film or hard water deposits around the bathroom fixtures and for that purpose, it seems to work reasonably well, but I'm using it for cleaning. Disinfecting or sanitizing follows cleaning and is not the same thing.

Vinegar may be moderately good as a bactericide, but I don't think it works so well at killing/destroying viruses, which is what we want if H1N1 is going around.

To be sure of doing a good job, I would use a commercial product that is EPA approved as a virucide for influenza. Or a homemade bleach solution like the one Jeff linked to. And make sure to keep the surface wet long enough to let it do its job. However, I will not be hiring Doug as my maid since every carpet will be bleached, every wooden floor rotted through, and every door knob horribly corroded in my house! wink

Edit: I was Googling some more just now and I do see some mention that vinegar works on viruses, but no specifics. For now, I can only assume that an EPA approved virucide works better than vinegar. Anyway, so it depends on how much protection you need.

Edit #2: I did just read one scientific article comparing commercial disinfectants along with vinegar and baking soda. Vinegar did better than I thought on some bacteria, but it was hit or miss. It didn't work against E coli or S aureas which are some of the heavyweight bacteria that we would want to get rid of. Didn't seem particularly effective against at least the polio virus used in this experiment, but neither were many of the commercial disinfectants. However, the EPA certifies products as a virucide separately from their bacteria-killing ability, so those products may not even claim to kill viruses. Anyway, if I had someone sick with what seemed to be the flu in my house, I would go for the commercial virucide or a bleach solution.


Edited by Arney (04/29/09 11:38 PM)

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#172434 - 04/29/09 11:12 PM Re: Pandemic-specific items [Re: Arney]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
On all disinfectants READ THE INSTRUCTIONS!!! One we use here (the wipes) says the surface must stay damp for 4 min. to be effective.

That is a lot of wipes!

Also ensure you are not mixing cleaning/disinfecting agents that could create any off gassing. Mix the right cocktail and you get a nice dose of chlorine gas.
_________________________
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#172440 - 04/30/09 12:41 AM Re: Pandemic-specific items [Re: Arney]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3256
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: Arney
[quote=LED]However, I will not be hiring Doug as my maid since every carpet will be bleached, every wooden floor rotted through, and every door knob horribly corroded in my house! wink


LOL! That would be wise. According to DW I am barely housebroken as it is. :-)

Anyway, I didn't mean to jump all over you; no offense intended. Good explanation of cleaning vs. disinfecting in your post. You're exactly right

To provide a bit of context, I've been engaged in trench warfare with deer mice in and around my place. Hantavirus is a definite risk (there have been fatalities around here). So I go kinda ballistic when some folks I know break out the 5% vinegar and incense, no respiratory protection, and pooh-pooh my annoying little rant (which I can back up with documented fact -- argh!)

'Nuff from me. On with the discussion!

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#172444 - 04/30/09 01:29 AM Re: Pandemic-specific items [Re: scafool]
Famdoc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 155
Loc: PA
Aspirin should be avoided by adults and children when they have any viral infection. Reye's Syndrome occurs in adults too, and can be fatal. Whether the low-dose 81 mg./day aspirin taken by many over 50 or those with a history of heart/vascular disease should stop it when ill with a viral infection is an open question. I suspect the higher doses needed to otherwise treat fevers and pain are the problem.

The only reason to treat fevers in the 102-104 degree range is patient comfort. We can run temps. that high for days without evidence of harm. Treating the fevers is ok, but there is clear evidence that it significantly prolongs the duration of viral shedding.

A very cheap, relatively tasty, and almost always available rehydration solution is: Gatorade-1 qt. + Water-1 qt. + 1/4 tsp. salt. Mix and sip: 1-2 tsp. every 5 minutes.

Some of the people with the "Swine" flu are having vomiting and diarrhea. Keep some Immodium and/or Pepto-Bismol in your kits.

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#172456 - 04/30/09 03:59 AM Re: Pandemic-specific items [Re: LED]
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
stocking up on bulk foods...

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#172460 - 04/30/09 04:24 AM Re: Pandemic-specific items [Re: TeacherRO]
Meadowlark Offline
Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 154
Loc: Northern Colorado

Thanks for your helpful thoughts, everyone. smile

I agree that it's very important to use disinfectants judiciously, especially since mixing some may cause an adverse chemical reaction (or at the very least, ruin various household surfaces.)

Another thing might be to have the phone number of your local doctor/clinic/hospital handy, so you can call ahead if you or someone in your family gets seriously ill. That way, there would be less of a chance that others would become infected via the waiting room, etc.
_________________________
I love to go a-wandering,
Along the mountain track,
And as I go, I love to sing,
My knapsack on my back


Current kits: http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showgallery&Number=241840

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#172465 - 04/30/09 07:43 AM Re: Pandemic-specific items [Re: dougwalkabout]
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
Excellent info you guys, thanks. Just for the record, I have no problem with bleach (use it all the time).

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