According to you, knowledgeable people, if money were no object, what would be the best poncho, poncho liner and tarp?

Thanks a million for your insight.

I've had a German army poncho for some time now, very sturdy, rubbery plastic thing. Great for setting up a shelter, totally waterproof as well. Will keep you dry even in a bad storm though perspiration is a big problem. The US poncho is also pretty good. Just about any other military grade poncho along the same lines will do the job.

Like Chris, I see no need for a poncho liner. Little practical value and too bulky. Better carry a sleeping bag instead. Anyway, a $20 surplus poncho is all I need. There may be "better" ponchos or tarps out there but I just don't care, the military stuff is inexpensive and works just fine.

I picked up a fabric poncho in Chile called a "manta" (blanket) that is made of wool. Most of the poorer people wear them, but they work great as a poncho/blanket and are amazingly waterproof. Not expensive, but I'm not sure how you would get one here.

Hmm, the best all around is still a bit of a compromise, as the best for a given situation depends on characteristics that no currently produced textile can achieve as a whole. In winter, nothing beats my rivers west fleece. While not a poncho option, their clothing line is waterproof, breathable, and quite warm. Their blankets make darned good tarps. In the big heat of the baghdad, the fleece idea won't work, and nylon doesn't seem to like the sand one whit, so reinforced film materials for tarping off and breathable synthetics for clothing. In between the extremes, I would tend more towards the waterproof and the slightly insulated stuff. Heatsheets is probably the best compromise all around material I could imagine for use as a poncho or as a tarp. Tyvek would be a close second, and ripstop lightweight nylon takes third maybe.

Most of the milsurp I've worked with seems too much of a compromise to me.

In general I've purchased my (and the family's) coated nylon ponchos from Campmor. They seem to be decent quality at a similar price.

As Chris alluded to, the lighter the poncho the more flapping in wind. Some folks tie a belt or rope around the waist to try to lower the flappage, but for me that starts to lose the ventilation advantage of the poncho.

Of course the other real problem with a poncho is that in a heavy rain EVERYTHING below the knee (or slightly higher) gets soaked. I've thought about looking for some Goretex leggings, but haven't.

Also, I never liked wearing the nylon hood, so I tend to wear my Tilly hat, and let the hood flop in back. Sometimes that means its left to collect a pool of water. In the end the best bet is to wear fast-drying non-cotton clothing and simply try to minimize the soak-factor. When it rains you'll probably get wet one way or another.

At one time I found a great deal on an Exped Bivy Poncho. It has snaps and ties that can turn it into a waterPROOF bivy (I'm not sure that's a good thing). The reason I like it is that its taller/longer than most ponchos, and since I'm 6'5" that is a good thing.

I like ponchos that have loops on the corners to that could be converted to a shelter fairly easily. I'd rather have nylon loops than grommets.

I have a coated nylon rain suit, but when I wear it I sweat buckets, so I don't wear it much.

Some day I'll invest in a Goretex suit, but that day hasn't arrived yet. Maybe for my 50th birthday next year. Oh these aching bones!!

Ken

i've been thinking ponchos myself..but what i want is something compact and light i can pull out of a day pack to cover up during sunshowers while i'm canoeing..getting into my full rainsuit out on the water is tricky and slow.i have seen the Silnylon ones but they are very spendy and my two US Army ones are kind of bulky..plastic is a joke so those are out..

The Campmor Cascade II Regular-sized Poncho (52"x80", 12.8 oz) costs only $20 and comes in a strikingly bright shade of yellow ... or black, kiwi green, blue, or forest green. I'd highly recommend them.

They also sell a Tall-sized version (52"x104", 14 oz) for $22 (sorry, not available in yellow or kiwi green - only black, blue, or forest green).

My problem with the tall version is that tall people (me) not only need longer ponchos, but they could also use wider ponchos - for those long arms. The Exped Bivy Poncho is 62"x90" - an extra 5" per arm. I haven't seen the Exped Bivy Poncho for sale in a long while - not sure why.

Ken

I have spent years (literally) under military issue ponchos, and can't imagine going anywhere without one. Having grommets in the corners and middle edges is critical in my opinion to make it more versatile as a tarp. If I had an extremely limited amount of space and weight, I would carry the poncho and poncho liner before almost anything else. I have several different civilian types, but none as durable or versatile as the military issue. They are not expensive (expensive being a somewhat relative term) and can be easily replaced.

All that said, what I think would make a better poncho:

Stronger and lighter material

Bright colors

Greater dimensions

I also tend to wear a hat instead of the hood, unless it is raining very heavily. A 360 degree wide brim to keep the rain off of my face and out of my neck.

+1 to Montanero. I too have spent many, many nights under my military poncho. Setting up a hooch is an artform I have perfected. As for liners, I have a Kifaru Woobie, which is great-in fact, it has replaced my sleeping bag for backpacking when I take my hammock. But, my poncho is so versatile, I dont think I'd ever give it up.

My favorite is the Vietnam era coated nylon USGI poncho and liner. the nylon is thick enough not to blow around to much but thin and light enough to pack well. They were a big improvement over the rubberized version they replaced.

The OD green is easy on the eyes. The snaps are close enough together to work right, the grommets are sturdy, and the hood has a drawstring that works well. For hot/wet, semi-tropical conditions they work well. Often better than even the most expensive breathable fabric rain jackets and pants. when things are hot and wet there is just nothing that can replace ventilation.

Used to be I could get then from any number of sources for $10 to $15 each.

The liner adds considerable warmth and used with the poncho makes a useful sleeping bag for moderate weather. The Thinsulate or, newer fleece, versions are a step up from the old fiber-fill liners. The old fiber-fill ones used to go for $20.

Problem is that genuine USGI ponchos are hard to get. Those available are often in poor condition or cheap Chinese knock-offs. Now don't give up on all knock-offs some are very good copies of the USGI version with only the slightly off color or labels telling you the difference.

The British Army MVP Poncho (somewhat similar to Taslan Goretex) weighs around 900 grams so does not flap about in the wind as the lighter materials and has all the appropriate grommets etc to be used as an improvised tarp shelter.

http://www.militarykit.com/products/special_offers/british_army_dpm_mvp_poncho.htm

or the Hilltrek Ventile Poncho

http://www.hillgear.com/acatalog/copy_of_copy_of_Cabrach_Ventile_Trousers.html

+1 on the Campmor ponchos. They have good quality at a reasonable price. Also check out REI, who has good ponchos in various sizes, with snaps and grommets aplenty, at comparable prices to Campmor.
MilSurp ponchos are generally heavier than "backpacker" ponchos, but also more durable, and usually a little cheaper.
As for insulation, check out the local fabric store, buy some fleece yardage of whatever weight you feel needed for your climate and intended uses, and make a liner for whatever poncho you have. It's easy to put snaps, grommets or whatever along the edges, even tie tapes.
Just some thoughts.

I like ponchos. Very versatile. I was talking to a Navy SEAL buddy about the USGI ponchos. I had bought my civilian one from either USCav or BQ. He asked me if I wanted a USGI one, so of course I said yes. A couple of days later, he hands me a brand new USGI poncho for the princely sum of FREE! Gotta love them SEALs.

What goes around comes around. We try to help out military families here when we can. And we send a lot of stuff to the military folks serving overseas. My kids and I send goodies. My wife is part of the socks for soldiers program. She knits wool socks to government specs for our troops to wear. I was surprised that she got a picture and thank you from an active special forces unit wearing the hand made socks. There faces weren't blurred out, so I don't think it would be a good idea to post the picture.

Strangely enough, I was helping a friend move house and I was given a couple of used surplus GI ponchos.

Score!

I will try out the new one when we go camping this weekend. It's rained on us about 95% of the times we have gone camping, so what do you figure the odds are it will get used. I may play around rigging it as a shelter too.

Why would a SEAL need a poncho for in the first place? If the waters deep enough they can swim thru it, anything else they just laugh off right?


Just kidding...;^)

2 of the more interesting people I've ever met were Navy SEALS, mostly cause you wouldn't guess who or what they were by looking at them or speaking with them but they both had some stories to tell once you got to know them.

JohnE

Well... I was just thinking about going rather light during short hikes and using the poncho as an improvised shelter in case weather turns out bad, mean and ugly.

For longer hikes I already have my four season tent and duvet sleeping bag.

In the same vein... what do you, guys, think of this (I just found it browsing the Net)?




It certainly seems like a 'pole-less'(*) tent, doesn't it?

(*) Is that even a word?

Maybe that's a tent that can be worn as a poncho in an emergency??

The tent is an Altus Goriz. It's a tad bit pricey, but I guess it's worth a closer look.

Anyway, thank you all of you, guys, for such a warm welcome to ETS. I'm enjoying tremendously this.

Welcome to the fire XWD! I do like that tent as it looks easy to set up. I really dislike trying to feed shock-corded poles through loops and sleeves. Give me an old-school pup tent any day.

-Blast, who also just uses poncho liners rather than a sleeping bag.

Looking back, I'm not sure anyone mentioned their favorite tarps.

My favorite is the Cooke Custom Sewing Tundra Tarp, made the U.S. by a great little company in God's country (northern Minnesota). Mine is a 10'x12' 1.5 oz. $110 is a great price considering the quality.

Here is their main link:
http://www.cookecustomsewing.com

Here is the CCS Tundra Tarp:
http://www.cookecustomsewing.com/tundratarp.htm

Some nice pictures here:
http://www.bwca.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=forum.thread&threadId=94319&forumID=15&confID=1

While you're there, check out their Lean shelters. I don't own one yet, but I REALLY want one.
http://www.cookecustomsewing.com/leans.htm

I much prefer a tent, or other full enclosure, not to keep out the lions and tigers and bears, but to keep out the snakes and scorpions and ants and spiders and all the other little critters that seem to find me when I sleep in just my bedroll under the night sky.

For the big critters that might view my tent the same way I look at the plastic wrapper on my bean and cheese burrito, the 44 magnum laying across my chest takes care of those type of uninvited guests. I generally don't go tent camping in places where I can't bring "ol' snuff 'em" along.

Yeah. In my use, the tarp is for sitting 'outside' in the rain/shade, and/or as a food prep area in the rain --- what we used to call a "dining fly".

I sleep in a tent. The skeeters around here get too bad to sleep outside, and that doesn't even include worries about the West Nile virus.

I really like the Siltarp Poncho made by Integral Designs in Calgary.

This Silponcho is both very light and easy to use as rain gear and as shelter. I made ultra lightweight budgie cords and place them in the bottom of the bag so i always have the ability to make a quick shelter.

That SilPoncho looks like a definitely must have. How about the Primaloft Poncho? How does it compare to the popular Kifaru Woobie?

I agree with the Integral Designs poncho and tarps

And a big plus for the Kifaru Woobie. The new version is a bit longer too!!!

I was told that some officer was trying to get the SEALs there own uniform and separate stuff like ponchos with their own design. The SEALs were not happy. Can you say target? So they wear whatever the units they are around wear, which makes much more sense.

Sounds about right except that they do wear, or at least they used to wear a very distinctive patch that every sailor knows is a SEAL ID.

You should see the average drunken swabby react to being questioned by a SEAL working security duty down at the U.S./Mexico border foot crossing at about 0300 on a Sunday morning...

Never saw more drunken salutes in my life...;^)

JohnE

Were you the SEAL or the drunken sailor?

I have never seen a SEAL "working security". That would be like swatting flies with a JDAM from an F-15.

Ken, thanks for the info on these... Been looking at getting a poncho to use in scouting. I have an emergency one tucked into my gear, but wanted something a bit more rugged. These look like they fit the bill.

How well do they pack?

Mike

That made me smile...

This was a few years ago, I was working on a photographic project in and around the border. At the time, the Border Patrol and Customs agents were being "assisted" by members of the active military in their duties.

The SEAL guy, who's name and rank I have unfortunately now forgotten, was there helping at the foot crossing from Tijuana to San Ysidro.

Great guy, about 5'9" slightly built but absolutely no doubt of what he was capable of doing if needed. I think he was mainly there for shock value as the sailors who came stumbling thru literally straightened up and attempted to at least look sober when they passed thru the checkpoint. He also served as a liasion between the BP and Naval personnel.

Nice guy, nice gig.

JohnE

Cant argue with cotton ventile, I still have an SAS smock that I bought in a fit of warry-ness about 15 years ago.Its been all over the world and into many strange environments and held up to all the rigours thrown at it. Its a bit distressed now and I keep it for old times sake now.

You have exquisite tastes...

(I've been working on a bottle of 10-year cask strength Laphraiog over the past couple of months; not for the faint-hearted.)

great Chris--thats about the most rational statement on the subject i have read in a long time..

Sounds like a good time all in all...

Isn't amazing how "comfortable" our surviving can be?

How well does this work?
The Sock