My brother is not very computer literate. He just presses keys until something happens. He currently has a previously owned eMachine, which is the biggest lump of junk I've every had to deal with.

So now he wants to buy a new computer. I've never even stood next to a Mac. How are they REALLY for a newbie? He isn't going to read any instructions because is the next thing to illiterate.

I know a bit about computers, at least some basics, so could I learn a Mac on my own and show him what to do? (Remember, I have ADD and am a slow learner of concepts, and have a short memory unless I'm obsessed with something.)

Are the prices about the same as a regular computer (whatever they're called)?

Sue

That's good timing Sue. No, I don't have any answers to you questions, but I am standing right behind you listen to the answers you get.

I'm moderately computer literate, but certainly no match for the Nerd Herd (Chuck reference). I managed to install wireless LAN cards to my kid's computer so that it can connect to my AT&T wireless LAN. I also figured out how to connect my work laptop to the home wireless LAN. But that's where it stops.

A few weeks back I bought a fancy schmancy HP printer that says it will allow PC's to print to it wirelessly. I tried and tried to get my kid's PC to print wirelessly to this printer - no luck. I tried to get my work PC to print wirelessly to it. No luck.

I'm somewhat convinced that Windows PC's (home WinXP) are on the edge of melting down - that they essentially barely work. I find that they slowly fall apart until they simply don't work. The hard drives somehow get messed up. Since when does software "age"? This has happened on several home computers and seems to happen on most work laptops ... the software essentially degrades to the point where it won't work right.

Based upon this, I've been wondering just in the last few days whether our family's next computer purchases should move in the direction of Apple computers. Do they degrade too? Is it easier to build working home LANs on them - without degree in computer engineering?

Ken

Macs are very intuitive, I'm using one right now, bought it used, no instructions, just plugged it in, and it works. It's one of 3 that are in use here with another laptop coming later this year.

As for Windows software "falling apart", you're probably being overwhelmed with virus' and malware. If you don't keep anti-virus software running religiously with frequent updates and you're going online with a Windows computer, it's only a matter of time before you'll get infected with some sort of computer virus. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. The end result of a lot of the virus' out there is a slowing down of the processor as it's often trying to run multiple programs, sending out emails laden with even more virus', etc. It's also possible that your machine has been hijacked and is being used without your knowledge by a hacker.

Sue, if you can, take your brother to an Apple store and let him talk to one of the folks there, he can also try a variety of Macs right there in the store.

They are gonna cost more than a Windows based machine, to my mind, the time saved by not having a machine that is constantly under assault by virus' and hackers is worth it, it might not be to you.

John E

Hi Sue. I recently purchased a Macbook Pro. I've been using every version of windows and countless UNIX/Linux distributions since '94. For me the Mac was/is a little hard to get used to. I'm accustomed to doing things the "hard way". I'll either sit down write my own software or read through man pages (documentation) to have the machine do what I want.

Apple does a very good job of simplifying what would be under other OS'es more complicated from the perspective of a non-computer savvy person. So much so that I and friends of mine, who like me are very adept with computers, find ourselves over complicating things. I have to keep reminding myself: How would my mom do this? Invariably if I stop myself from trying to get it to do things how I think it should, it does what I want it to. For most non-techy folk it will be very intuitive.

Apple puts a lot of focus on reducing the options down to what is just needed and therefore the user is less likely to make an error. (Less is more) That's not to say just cause it's idiot proof they won't make a better idiot. I've worn that hat many a time.

As for viruses, software "aging", or the system slowly degrading. It will happen on Windows/Apple/Linux whatever. It's either user error, bad programming, or malicious programming. Computers are tools and like any tool if you don't learn how to keep it from damage or how to repair it... be ready to pay someone else to do it for you or replace it.

Like JohnE said if you have an Apple store nearby play with the machines there. I've seen people at the store spend hours surfing the web and just using the machines. If he's a student or has a student in the house you may even qualify for a discount (they don't check anyways). Oh and yes they may tend to cost just a little bit more. Thus far I think my purchase was worth it. Then I just spent a little over 1k on a Drobo and an Elgato usb tv tuner..... sigh

-H

Hi,

I am currently using a 7 year old Mac Laptop (G4) with Apples latest OS. It runs really well for me except it can't handle the latest HD video cameras. (I guess that is why my wife gets to take care of the kids videos. ) Generally perceived performance has just gotten better over the last couple of OS updates but I will probably upgrade in a year or so.

I use Windows PCs at work and I agree that Windows is just really hard to manage. A lot of my coworkers have been getting Macs lately. The good news is that current Apple HW can run Windows if you decide the Mac OS isn't for you. We just got our kids a Mac Mini at Christmas and it can switch between Mac and Windows pretty quickly. Needed to do that since Grandma decided the kids needed a game/toy that only runs on Windows.

My experience with recent Mac purchases is that they run about the same cost as similarly configured quality PCs. People can always find a similarly spec'd PC or go all out and build their own for less than a Mac but if you compare to some of the brands with good quality reputations you will find that Macs are very price competitive these days.

No tool is user / idiot proof. My dad uses Macs and can get into some interesting things from time to time. Of course when I think about turning him loose on Windows I just start to shudder.

The only other advice I would offer is get a real mouse - Apples 1 button mice and their "mighty mouse" drive me nuts. I like Logitech and Kensington 3 button mice and the cool thing is you plug them into the computer and they "just work" for basic 3 button mouse functions.

Personal Computers (all types) are a personal choice. I like Macs for a lot of reasons that don't apply to a lot of people.

Try to find one to play with and good luck.

- Eric

I've got little experience with the newer osx, more with the older versions.

A few months ago, a customer had an Mac and multifunctional printer, but it would not work on the Mac. I was there to install a laptop for his work, and could easaly install the printer. Then he asked for installing it on the Mac.

After trying a lot of options, I got it to work, but definatly not as easy as everybody say's it was.

So I guess it's easy with the os you are used to, but more troublesome if you are new to it.

As far as virus / malware.... Maybe it's because I'm carefull out there on the internet, but my pc is running beautiful. And I did not got infected the last 18 years. Watch out what you accept and you'll be fine.

They are not really any easier to learn, just a little harder to mess up. I've sat people down in front of them and they had to have just as much helping as the rest but with the OS locked down pretty tight by default its harder to screw things up or mistype a web site address and get hit with malware.
The hardware is more $ and has some issues despite all the mac fans putting perfect reviews into places like consumer reports its not the quality they claim.

I've worked with MACs, PCs and Unix based office systems. In my experience, MACs truely are more user friendly than any of the other systems. Less of a learning curve.

I also found MACs less prone to problems and software glitches, BUT, when they did occur, they were impossible for the user to fix and the MAC consultant had to be called in. PCs overall probably had more problems, but were overall easier to fix and tinker with. PCs also had more unique scientific/engineering type software available than the MAC.

If you are starting from scratch and not doing anything exotic that requires some specialized scientific software, I would recommend the MAC due to the shorter learning curve for the user. If you have a history with PCs and know your way around a bit, I would go with a PC. I found trying to know 2 systems confusing; I kept hitting the wrong keys and getting confused.

Susan:
Here's what I think about people knowing nothing about computers teaching people about computers:



OK, despite my rant about not wanting to fix your computer, I am very happy to post a few things about computer selection.

First of all, yes, I have a bias toward Mac for most users, simply because what it does, it does right and what it doesn't do, it won't do at all. If you get a used mac, get a "G4" system at the very minimum running OS X 10.4. Better get the newer Intel chip based Macs, they are faster, better, stronger, etc.

Peripherals are simple. 90% of the time, installing a printer on a recent vintage Mac consists of plugging it in. That's it. Just plug it in, pause a moment, and print. Similarly, with digital cameras, you connect the camera, and the picture will transfer to iPhoto. The security of a mac is good, but not perfect, and yes, there are actual viruses for the mac out there. Software availability is good, Openoffice, which lets you make MS Word, Powerpoint and other "office" documents is free (www.openoffice.org) and OK, the iWork suite (Keynote for presentations, Pages for documents and Numbers for spreadsheets and math documents) is utterly awesome but when you down-convert to other formats, such as powerpoint or MS word, you loose a lot of the nice features. Maintenance on a Mac is - usually - simple. Their laptops are good, but not that durable, you need to buy the $250 Applecare insurance, your laptop WILL break at least once in 3 years and you'll be glad you had the insurance.

That said, if you are willing to work a little bit harder to get stuff connected (printers, scanners, Roku boxes, whatever), you will save a bundle of money with a simple Windows XP box, but I have never encountered an XP system used by a "novice/casual" user that didn't have spyware and viruses on it. I even almost got one the other day, but it was intercepted by Clamwin, the anti-virus I prefer.

Finally, there's the 3rd way, which is 100% free using open-source software. I think Ubuntu is the most mature and ready for primetime package, and it runs OK on older (2003 vintage) hardware. That said, there's only two use cases I see for it. Case 1: The utter novice who never does anything but use the web browser and maybe - just maybe - has a digital camera. In this case, a Ubuntu Linux with Google's Picassa package added in (relatively painless) is perfectly fine. If they want to install ANYTHING, if they want to do ANYTHING other than the web and email, they will need some "computer skills" (more coming on that).
Case 2: A geek (like me) who likes to tinker and customize ALL DAY LONG. It's a busybox for adults.

For the novice users, there's no real disadvantage compared XP. It's a lot cheaper - some say free. As far as the software being "free" - my favorite saying about Linux is "Linux is free if your time is worthless". So, if you have some time, or if you actually want to learn more about computer systems, by all means, go for the Ubuntu.

Now, one thing that I need to pontificate on.

Computers are machines, certainly the most complex machine you'll own. More importantly, computers are machines that require their operator to observe explicit behavior of the machine and respond accordingly (there's a window that says "press any key to continue" - what do you do, what DO you do?) and also to infer what the outcome of an action will be. For example, you get one of those USB keychain drive things. You plug it into the computer. What next? Do you understand that the device will appear as a new disk on the system? On windows, at home it might show up at the "e:\" drive and at your buddies house it might show up as the "h:\" drive. On a Mac it will show up with a name, not a letter, and on Ubuntu it will show up as a named "volume" in the "filesystem".
Do you really "get" files and "folders" on a computer? No Mac or PC will help with that - that's a key requirement of the peripheral located between the chair an keyboard.

I often think that novice users should start out with a command line. No windows, no mice, no icons. Just a cold terminal window. Because that FORCES you to build a mental map of the inner workings of the machine, it FORCES you to develop an abstract level of understanding of how a file system and operating system work. More importantly, it gives you the ability to treat the organizational principles and functions of a computer as an interchangeable abstract concept.

For example, any of the geeks here would know why these command-line descriptions of certain "folders" (directories, really) are related:

/var/opt
/usr/sbin
/usr/bin
/bin/
c:/Program Files
/applications

(depending on the computer, these all represent places you'd expect to find "programs")

I'm just saying is that a Mac isn't going to make you a competent computer user, any more than a Glock 19 will make you a competent gun owner. In both cases, they are intuitive machines that have fairly obvious functions and they allow you to immediately set to using them. In both cases, you can end up with a big mess if you don't take some time to learn how to use them.

All I ask of any and every novice or "I don't really get computers" people is to spend no less than 12 hours with basic tutorials on how to use computers. I like the "for Dummies" series, but go to a book store - a real, physical book store, and look inside the books. If you see one that you like in terms of how it is laid out and how it reads, buy it. Turn off the television at night and spend the time you would have spent watching Americas Funniest Industrial Accidents or some such and use that time to enrich your computer skills. There's no downside at all to learning more.

Sue,

First +1 on everything Martin said.

Second Mac initial purchase is somewhat more expensive new.

Family and I have been PC users/owners since 1998, and me since the first IBM PC XT came out and I upgraded from Tandy TRS-80.

We moved to Apple MacBook's a year ago December 25th and have not had a single problem.

I have one program that is not Mac useable, but it is a very specific construction estimating program. Said program is now run on Windows on the MacBook. (Yes the newer Mac's can run windows also.)

The only way I am going back to a PC is if I ever find a new gig and they provide the computer.

BTW, I started my 2 year old PC the same time I started my MacBook. I have since logged on to ETS and typed this post, and the PC is still starting up. No it is not slow, Mac is just that fast.